Sonny Liston

I have a problem with you suggesting Machen was mentally ill when he fought Liston.Machen said there was a substance on Liston's gloves, I have no idea if he was correct.I do believe Ali had something in his eyes in the first Liston fight,whether it came from linament applied to Liston's shoulder, or something intentionally applied to his gloves I don't know. What is painfully apparent is that there are a gaggle of Ali knockers on this forum, doing all they can to discredit his victories.

 

Dundee did use smelling salts which were illegal in this country at that time. The glove was torn around the base of the thumb area, it was the stitching.Dundee said he "helped it," by pulling it further apart. The delay was minimal the whole fight can be viewed in its entirety.The fight was timed and the stories of extra minutes rest are bull**** . My Father said Ali was being ****y ,clowning around from the third round on,Cooper half ducked under a left backing him into the ropes then landed the pay off hook .Ali was up at 3 I beleive . Bottom line ,Ali came out meaning business in the 5th and that was that.

 

Machen had a nevous breakdown at the end of 1962 after fighting a draw with Cleveland Williams, it is believed that financial pressures and the prospect of being sidelined from a title shot led him to threaten suicide. Machen did not fight for 14 months.
Machen fought Liston on Sept 7th 1960 , over two years before his breakdown.
Machen was never diagnosed as a schizophrenic.

 

Was machen mentally ill against Ingo Johansson?

 

There was nothing wrong with Machen until the autumn of 1962.

Machen had a return bout contract with Ingo but the Swede's would not honour it.

 

So Eddie was ok for ingo and sonny but not Williams?

 

No he was ok for Williams too , but having only got a draw ,it's thought he was worried about being put on the back burner as far as a title shot was concerned , he also had some financial worries.I remember him writing an article to the Ring magazine complaining about being dropped down the ratings.

 

The fact that that is when he had his breakdown, prior to that he was fighting and winning .
What are you basing the assertion that Machen was mentally ill when he faced Liston in 1960 on? Machen was described as being confused and depressed as I remember at the time I was what, 14. I've still got those Ring mags in the loft.
"TONIGHT Boxer Ed Machen Mentally Confused NAPA, Calif. (AP) - Mentally disturbed heavyweight fighter Eddie Machen knocked two hospital attendants cold and injured a third in a wild and futile attempt to break out of Napa State Hospital Wednesday night. But the powerful Negro slugger was finally overpowered and placed under sedation, from which he didn't revive until mid-afternoon Thursday, Dr. Theo K. Miller said. "He is in a very confused state of mind," the hospital superintendent reported. He said the slugged attendants all were okay Thursday. Still groggy and confused, Machen was visited Thursday afternoon by his wife, Charlotte, who flew from their Portland home. She confirmed that Machen, who was confined by court order to the hospital Wednesday after he was found preparing lo kill himself with a pistol, had been disturbed over money matters and failure to get a fight. The fact Machen hadn't fought since July is said to have caused him to worry about money. "He was trying very hard to get a fight--with anyone," "his wife explained. "Fighting was his profession and he wanted to work at it. He was worried about family finances." She said the 198-pound fighter left Portland early this week to visit his brother at El Cerrito Calif. Dr. Miller said that until next Tuesday, when Machen will be reported on in. Superior Court, the fighter will be under continual observation by hospital doctors. The depressed ring veteran, is currently ranked no 1 by the WBA "

That is dated December 1962.

 

In what way does that contradict what I said? I never said anything of the above ain't true.

Of course, I meant to 'get up' figuratively, it took him some time sitting in the corner to brace himself, not just recover physically, but mentally as well. I never claimed he didn't get up literally.

Irrelevant.

Another irrelevant statement.

 

liston dogged it twice

 

You have two 12th rounds.

My card
Ali - 1,3,5,10,11,15
Shavers - 2,4,6,7,8,9,13,14
draw - 12

 

He's missing 13.