Sonny Liston

Liston in his prime wasn't slow.
But he was in the same era as Floyd Patterson and young Cassius Clay, who were exceptionally fast. So it's always been easy to label Liston "slow".

 

I agree, he was deceptively quick, something Ali alluded to.

Here's an excerpt from a book regarding Liston's speed (unfortunately forgot the name).

"There were few spectators in the Pavilion. Vic led them to some front row padded loge seats. The world's number one heavyweight contender was in the ring working with a very fast light heavyweight. Although his size made him seem as ponderous as a water buffalo, Liston was in fact faster than the sparring partner. He worked on cutting off the ring, something he anticipated he would have to do with Patterson, who was lightning fast and a fine boxer as well. Time and again Liston trapped the light heavyweight along the ropes. Liston threw light punches and let him go, only to trap him again."

 

Three of Sonny’s four losses were by stoppage, and neither of the men who produced those stoppages were big punchers. The guy who broke his jaw wasn’t a puncher either.

Comparing Cleveland Williams and Folley to Wilder in the power department is laughable.

 

stop trolling

 

You mean in other words you don't know enough about Williams or Foley to make an informed opinion.
Cleaveland Williams was one of the most feared punchers of that era, and one of
the hardest punchers in the history of the heavyweight division , Folley was a very respectable puncher.
So the only thing laughable is your lack of knowledge of those facts.
Is Wilder that great a puncher or has he , like Butter Bean, was fed a study diet of has
been, never were's and 3rd raters to pad his record?
Or Michael Grant who had that beautifully padded record of ko's was undefeated only
to be starched and exposed by the only live body he fought Lennox Lewis?
pretty ko's can be produced easily with the right management team.

 

Well to be fair ,, are we using the 35 year old Liston version who lost to the greatest HW or all time? You seem to alluding to that version?? .. I think Ali said Williams was the 3rd biggest puncher he ever faced ,,, so is that laughable as well?

 

doesn't matter the ver of son we use he was overrated and would be beat

 

2 of those losses were when he was in his mid 30s, injured, and found 6 minutes in three years. Oh yeah and it was at the hands of the GOAT.

The other was when he was a coked up addict in his late 30s with the flu.

How many fights and professional experience did he have when he had his jaw broken?

As for Marshall not being a puncher, he was the quickest guy to KO Satterfield, something (an admittedly green) Williams, Valdes, Baker, Meredos, etc, couldn't even come close to doing.

You seem to have neglected this information.

I don't think Williams is far behind Wilder in the power department, if at all. Tbh though I favor Wilder, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion he beats Williams either.

 

I don't see Folley as a power puncher.

 

People seem to be missing what is right in front of their face from the last 2 fights .. Wilder has ZERO stamina . . He is flopping all over the canvas and this lack of stamina is part of the reason he goes down easy .. Liston could EASILY floor Wilder with that telephone pole jab .. Liston has that Wilder power in both gloves ...

Fury is a completely different fight .. He is at least a full level. probably 2 skill wise above Wilder

 

He was respectable. He wasn't Shavers or Williams, but he could hurt
an opponent if they got careless. He was one of a very few fighters that
floored Bonevena. So he was hitting hard enough.
I will say this, I respect Folley's list of victims much more than respect
Wilders.

 

I think Fury would get rocked enough to get very tentative, and would be really unhappy when his leaning-on tactics were disrupted by an ugly left hook on the inside.

Liston's ability to change tactics according the opponent would also foozle Fury, since he (like Holmes) generally liked guys he could predict.

Liston hit nearly as hard and finished about a million times better than Wilder, so Fury gets dropped three times and stopped in 4.

 

I always have a lot of respect for your opinion, my friend. But I have to step in here.

Wilder proved he has not just more power, but more heart and courage in that last fight than any other active heavyweight alive (except Fury of course on the last two). The only boxer I would bet against Deontay would be Usyk, mostly for his skills. Even then, Wilder could coldcock him at any time.

Wilder actually looked like a great fighter in his defeat imo, and I think we here are being way too condemning of him. Yeah, Fury beat him three times, but he himself was knocked down FOUR times total and nearly out in the 4th of this last fight. If Fury was twice the fighter he was, he wouldn't have a) been felled at all and b) wouldn't have looked not so great in either the first and especially the third fight.

I know myself that Wilder isn't as great a fighter as Fury, never was. But let's be completely realistic...can we even say Fury proved himself as much as, say, Wlad or Lewis this century? I don't see him coming anywhere near close. He is apparently lazy and at times self-admittedly unfocused.

Otherwise, I am with you on that jab, and Liston indeed wasn't far from Wilder in terms of power.

 

All good we can disagree on this one then my friend.. I think we all know that Wilder has that one shot power .. and I also think we all can agree he is stepping it up in competition when he faces Fury ... And when you step it up in competition and come up VERY short .. it's fair to be criticized on that .. No doubt he has the heart, charisma, and that one shot power .. BUT I am seeing a fighter who lacks all around skill, STAMINA, and was just recently stopped in rd 3 and rd 11 , far from a great fighter for me..... sorry man , just calling it like it is ... if we differ then cool

 

Your points are more than valid, my friend.