Sonny Liston's Age

Depends what side of the bed he got out on that morning. As Hhascup says, Gallender has claimed that Liston was boxing under the name "Sailor Liston" in 1934 at the age of 17. Information he apparently got from the Encyclopaedia Britannica.

https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-ne...the-top-two-greatest-ever-heavyweights/168625

 

Thanks man! Feel free to add to the scien-terrific theories & examination of that Ageless Wonder that is Charles Sonny Liston.

 

Why on earth would you throw around the word "hater"? smh.
I did two (2) things. I showed how Liston was almost certainly or at least very likely born no earlier than the early 1930's.
There is absolutely nothing negative about or against Liston in illustrating this.
And you offer zero evidence to the contrary.

And I suggested an incredibly absurd working theory about how Liston may have been the first fully human individual, is over 200K years old, & several iron chinned rough hewn fighters are his progeny.
This is called parody or satire re: jesting about age claims by being even more extreme.

I said nothing critical about him or his boxing abilities.
Not that any critiques should be dismissed without looking at whether they are valid, nor the motivations assumed to be bad....

But since i said nothing remotely negative about Liston-how could you even passingly wonder if I might hate him?

 

The 1940 US Census record for the family was enumerated on April 23rd. As there were still two-thirds remaining in the year, he would be "10" had he been born anytime after Apr 23, 1929. So, his oldest birthdate possible would have been Apr 24, 1929, or 10 years, 11 months, and 29 days. That would make him 2 months shy of 35 when he first fought Ali. Seems about right to me.

 

I guess he was about 40 years old when he died. Hard paper round that it was.

 

1928 sounds right to me.

 

I actually received a phone call from Gallender a while back and that's when he told me that Sonny was born in 1917. I told him that I didn't think that was so, after that we had a very friendly debate on a few facebook pages!

There is an interview that he states that Liston was born in 1919.

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Here's another interview:
Q: In your book, you go into detail, from research you did, on Sonny’s date of birth. You say he was born in either 1917, 1918 or 1919.

P.G: “That’s right. And it’s not just me. The Encyclopaedia Britannica has Sonny fighting under the name ‘Charles Sailor Liston,’ in 1934. So that would make Liston around the age of 17. One of the doctors said, before the first Ali fight, that he was at least 47. And that’s what I mean – Sonny was already an old fighter by the time he finally got a shot at the title. What Floyd Patterson and Cus D’Amato did was really unfair. They made Sonny wait, he was the number-one contender after he beat Cleveland Williams the first time, yet Patterson had the nerve to fight Tom McNeleely instead of Liston. One of the bad things Patterson did was, he only fought one black guy as champion, in Tommy Jackson, before he finally fought Sonny. Sonny, after he beat Williams the second time, knew he was the best in the world, that he could beat anybody.

The actually quote in the Encyclopaedia Britannica reads as follows:
Liston, the son of a tenant farmer, served two long terms in prison, where he is said to have learned to box. Although he gave his birth year as 1932, there is evidence that he might have begun his ring career as early as 1934, at the age of 17, under the name of Charles (“Sailor”) Liston. If that is true, he was 45 years old when he won the championship.

Here's an article:
In addition to Liston’s suspected mob-ties, Gallender’s most startling revelation is that he was born in 1917 and actually was 47 when, as a huge favorite, lost his title to 22-year-old Cassius Clay in 1964. His book claims Liston took a dive in their 1965 return to Muhammad Ali (formerly Clay)—going down for the count from a “punch” nobody saw.

 

I like Gallender and speak to him on occasion. He's very educated regarding boxing, and more specifically Liston but I highly doubt Liston was born in 1917. 1928 sounds much more accurate. Even a year or so earlier I could buy, but 1917-1919 is far to much.

 

This made me laugh out loud

 

Sometimes you just have to embrace the madness!

To me, Liston's absence from the 1930 census indicates that he was born in late 1930. If someone thinks he was a couple of years older, I disagree but it's not crazy. The idea that he was already in his 40s when he first became a contender is just insane and arguing about it is only going to make you start questioning reality itself.

 

May 8 1930.

 

I have wrote it before: Ignorance is bliss, and everyone deep down knows he was the ******* offspring of Frederick Douglass.


Now despite what POTUS 45 thinks, Douglass died in Feb 1895, so Liston was at least 75 when he died.


Well it makes more sense than fighting as a white man in the 1930s and thus seemingly faking his death in the mid 30s and coming back as the Charles Sonny Liston we all know in the 50s!

 

There's no madness whatsoever.

No it doesn't. Do you have any idea how the Census was compiled ?!???
Let me tell you. Some government worker/workers just went to the Liston household and asked Liston's illiterate parents how many children they have, what's their name and how old they are. That's it. The Listons answered and the governement officials just took their word for granted. I repeat, the Listons were illiterate, they did not know how to read or write, they probably just guessed how old their children are.
Not to mention the fact that there is the possibility Sonny took the identity of one of his younger brothers.
The arrest records showcase Liston to be at least in his mid 20s in 1950, no younger than around 22-23 at the time.

No, it's not insane at all. All those who knew him said he was a lot older than stated. His physical appearance shows that.
His sister said he was born in the year right after "the great war", meaning 1919.
The doctor who performed the autopsy on Sonny said he had the physical traits of a 50 year old.

 

Yes, you can't rely on the censuses to have the details exactly right. We see this in the fact that Sonny's elder brother Curtis is listed as 6 months old in 1930 and 11 years old in 1940.

You're still left trying to explain how Sonny was omitted from the 1930 census altogether when according to you he was already about 10 years old, and then listed as a 10 year old on the 1940 census when you think he was actually 20 and had presumably already left home.

But I know that when people are determined to believe something it takes more than mere facts and logic to change their minds.

 

I can explain it pretty easy, he assumed the identity of one of his younger brothers.