With the recent discussions regarding Liston's injury, I'd like to clear a couple things up on the matter. Seems the consensus here is the injury was made up by Liston and/or his team for whatever reason. Immeadiately after the fight, Richard Gerstein, Florida State Attorney, immediately senses some ****ery and withholds Liston's purse pending an investigation. He actually makes a public statement regarding the matter. This content is protected "The eight doctors who examined Liston for six hours after the fight at St. Francis' Hospital, issued the following statement: "Sonny Liston received an injury to the long head of the biceps tendon of his left shoulder with the result that there is separation and tear of the muscle fibers with some hemorrhage into the inside belly of the biceps. This condition could be sufficient to incapacitate him and prevent him from defending himself." https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-news/155454042/ Here is an article which goes into depth regarding the hospital's findings. The primary doctor explains he requested multiple doctors to avoid confusion. Article also goes into detail regarding the exact area Liston was injured. "https://www.newspapers.com/article/honolulu-star-advertiser/155454160/" Very interesting that Liston says he came into the fight with a bad shoulder (though one that was more bothersome than painful) These findings were sent over to a satisfied Gerstein who promptly released Liston's pay, while remaining suspicious of other aspects to the fight (Liston paying $50,000 to choose Ali's next opponent in the event that he won). https://www.nytimes.com/1964/03/24/archives/florida-finds-no-evidence-of-fix-in-listonclay-bout.html It's very interesting that both Gerstein and Liston himself say Liston went into the fight with an injury. According to Wikipedia, Liston was seen icing his tendons, and receiving ultrasound therapy after his gym sessions. Wikipedia doesn't source it, and I haven't found any information confirming this so it is likely hogwash. Something very interesting to note though, is Liston had abruptly stopped sparring sessions a week or so before the fight. Dundee himself commented on this, and called it unheard of for fighters to do this unless they're injured in some way. "” Angelo Dundee, challenger Clay’s trainer, expressed amazement. He stated: “As long as I've been in boxing, I never heard of any man quitting his sparring a week before an important fight unless he was very stale or hurt in some way.” https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-irving-daily-news-texan/155160875/ On the other hand, one of Liston's cornermen Joe Pollino allegedly told the press they cooked up the injury on the spot. ""[The shoulder] was all BS. We had no return bout clause with Clay, and if you say your guy just quit, who is gonna get a return bout. We cooked up that shoulder thing on the spot." Their are three problems with this supposed confession. 1. Their isn't a single verified source confirming this quote actually exists. 2. This whole "We cooked up that shoulder thing on the spot." cannot be true unless the doctors, and the state attorney who had zero signs of corruption mind you, were in on it as well. 3. Pollino's reputation is highly dubious. He also claims he put some "juice" on Liston's glove against Ali in that infamous fourth round. Only problem is...... the referee checked Liston's gloves and found nothing on there. https://ibb.co/XyFb6Nm More importantly, he also started the infamous rumor that Sonny Liston was not actually Charles Liston but one of his older brothers disguised as Charles. When the "real" Charles went to visit, Sonny kicked him out. This guy supposedly told Pollino that he was the "real Charles" to which Sonny confirmed, but promptly downplayed. https://www.newspapers.com/article/philadelphia-daily-news/149433203/
I have not seen it but I will not be shocked if it turns out to be true the consensus is that the injury is fabricated. That’s Ali industry BS. As mentioned, Liston’s pay was withheld, pending an extensive look into his shoulder injury claim. Despite being a hated & deeply mistrusted figure, he got the money. I wonder why?
Jack Nilon said his left shoulder was injured going into Patterson II, but Liston got away with it, so they figured he could again get away with it in Miami Beach. In fact, if you study the Patterson II footage very carefully, and listen to Sonny's post fight comments, his right hand did predominate, not his much more vaunted left. His right did all the damage. A left hook happened to be the final punch landed, but his right had already done the ending damage. His very first punch in Miami Beach was a thunderous right to the heart which landed with huge impact, causing Steve Ellis to exclaim, "Whew!" He was again going to use his left as a decoy while again deploying his right for full power. Yeah, based on what I see and hear from Patterson II, I believe Jack Nilon. His left was indeed injured going into Patterson II, then was wrenched out and badly aggravated as he missed with it. Liston took six months off after the loss to Marshall. He took an intended seven months off before training for the originally scheduled Ali II date. Sonny had eight bouts in 1958. He wouldn't reproduce that level of activity again until seven bouts in 1968, including his true return to prominence against Henry Clark on ABC (where Howard Cosell made note of his huffing and puffing, indicative of his diseased lungs discovered at autopsy). Again, what I'm going on is what Jack Nilon said at the time, then comparing what he said against the Patterson II and Clay I footage. The evidence for a left shoulder injury can indeed be detected. (Machen had a far more severe right arm injury against Liston, but can be seen using it anyway. And Frazier was using his hook in his Gold Medal winning match, although his left thumb was broken. And Shavers is using his right in Henry Clark I, although it's obvious it didn't have the same kick. It was obvious viewing it live via satellite that there was something wrong with it.
Excuses excuses. Reality Check - Liston gets his fundament beaten clean off in every fantasy h2h match up
I have always thought that he was legitimately injured but in his heart of hearts he thought he could get away with it because he didn't think Ali had any more for him than Patterson did. I think after the first round he'd seen the error of his ways ...
Wow, another 1000000 excuses because Liston lost against Ali. Frazier went blind, high blood pressure and one handed against Ali, Patterson fought Ali with broken back. I think Liston fans exceed even Tyson fans at numbers of excuses. Liston blinded Ali and quit, then also quit in the rematch , deal with that Liston paroles.
Watch out, they gonna attack you and insult you in groups because you said something bad about their hero.
Despite the evidence/proof of an existing condition/injury produced after the fact, there are people who claim that the evidence isn’t satisfactory. They also believe that the evidence that was produced can be explained away, some even going so far as to suggest that the 8 doctors were all, somehow, “got at”, resulting in a pre-agreed, uniformly “fabricated” diagnosis. The problem with that perspective is - what evidence would have been satisfactory to the cynics in all possibility, including evidence that could not be discredited, at least in their minds? I would suggest that NO evidence possible would dissuade them from their belief. If they believed that Sonny quit cold in the first instance, they were locked in to that view no matter what evidence was presented to them after the fact - and they would also look for any way possible to discredit that evidence. To crystallise the point, EXACTLY what BETTER evidence (than the evidence that was produced) could medicos (with their available technology as at the time) provide to convince people that Liston was injured? I mean they could’ve euthanised Sonny and then performed an autopsy - but that would’ve been a bit harsh, right?
