Sonny v Jeff's challengers?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Apr 24, 2013.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Is there any particular reason why you can't just address the question I asked?

    How does the Liston who had just won the title by koing Patterson do against the title challengers that Jeffries defended against?

    It seems pretty straight forward to me.:huh


    I repeat, if you want to change the goalposts start another thread,with your own criteria.:patsch
    Just to humour you , Liston's 6th and 7th fights were against Johnny Summerlin who was 18-1-2 & 18-2-2 this was in August 1954, in Feb 1955 Summerlin was Ring rated number 8 in the world.

    Summerlin's lone loss prior to facing Liston was on a cut eye, he was only stopped one other time, in his last fight by Nino Valdes. Summerlin went on to beat Carter,Whitehurst,Powell and Folley.
    Liston beat him 2 out of 2.

    Only good fighters beat Summerlin ,check him out. This is a quote from then unbeaten Zora Folley's trainer.


    "FENN: Well, I tried to train Folley right. Bring him along steady against the right opponents.
    SHELTON: These early bouts were in Los Angeles and Clifton, Arizona?
    FENN: Yeah, we did well. I only wish that I had not matched him against (Johnny) Summerlin (Folley's first loss - 1955 - Los Angeles). That turned out to be a mistake. Folley was not quite ready for him."


    BTW Ruhlin was as much a novice as Jeffries in their first fight.

    Choynski was a very experienced fighter of top ability , but he had shaky whiskers and was only 167lbs when he drew with Jeffries over 20 rds. I pick the Liston of the Summerlin fights to beat Choynski.I do not believe ANY 167lbs fighter beats Liston.
     
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Sonny Liston KO 3 Bob Fitzsimmons I
    Sonny Liston TKO 6 James Corbett I
    Sonny Liston KO 2 James Corbett II
    Sonny Liston KO 1 Bob Fitzsimmons II
    Sonny Liston KO 4 Gus Ruhlin
    Sonny Liston TKO 3 Tom Sharkey
    Sonny Liston KO 1 John Finnegan
    Sonny Liston KO 1 Jack Munroe
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Good question.

    I don't think he retained his focus after he held the title like Jeffries did.

    He possibly quits on his stool against Sharkey when his left arm is out of action.

    Once he starts training on whisky, there is a good chance of him loosing to somebody.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Not to any of the challengers that Jeffries defended against.

    Liston was a victim of his own power, he had less than 2 complete rounds of action,[ under 4.5 mins in the 2 previous years ,]when he faced the greatest heavyweight of all time.
    This would patently NOT be the case if he was defending against Jeffries challengers in the same time frame as Jeff.

    So your point is not relevant.
    You keep muddying the water, but not answering the question.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    My point is that relativley few ATGs have what it takes to establish longevity, and Liston likley wasn't one of them.

    Fighters like Liston have a way of bringing themselves down to meet their opposition.

    Liston didn't beat these fighters, Jeffries did.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Bob Fitzsimmons (I) KO 8 Sonny Liston
    Sonny Liston UD 15 James Corbett (I)
    Sonny Liston D15 James Corbett (II)
    Sonny Liston KO12 Bob Fitzsimmons (II)
    Sonny Liston KO 6 Gus Ruhlin
    Tom Sharkey TKO 14 Sonny Liston
    Sonny Liston KO 4 John Finnegan
    Sonny Liston UD12 Jack Munroe
     
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Not many boxers in history beat Liston, certainly none from this semi-pro era of low standards. It's conceivable he knocks out all Jeffries opposition in the first, Sharkey and Corbett included.
     
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Sharkey bites off his nose before that happens. No way. Sharkey was a beast.
     
  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Your head would be cold.
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Sharkey and Fitz worked the slats like no others, certainly not that pampered bunch Liston called opponents. And that would be the difference, working the breadbasket,. Sharkey was an artist with his boiler work.

    Sharkey KO11 Liston.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes I can see Sharkey repeatedly butting Liston in the stomach doubling him up in pain.In such close quarter work Liston's 13.5" reach advantage would become a distinct liability .
    If only Cleveland Williams had been 5'8" instead of 6'3" he could have employed this tactic and scored two great victories over Liston,going on to destroy Patterson, and changing the course of boxing history.

    ps .Is Sharkey the only heavyweight to be kod by a lightweight?
    Twenty years old Sailor Tom, with 6 fights behind him ,was stopped by lightweight George Washington who was making his debut.
    Perhaps Washington was too short for Sharkey to utilise his famed body attack?:think
     
  13. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You sure about this? I've never read anywhere that Washington was a LW
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    George Washington Global ID 60002sexmaledivisionlightweight
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    rounds boxed 6 KO% 50
    biography



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    Lb St Kg | ↑date↓ | ratings off on
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    print</B>
    dateopponentW-L-Dlast 6location1899-02-10Steve Crosby
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    Chicago, Illinois, USALPTS66
    1894-02-07Tom Sharkey
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    Honolulu, Hawaii, USAWKO?
    "Geo. Washington, the colored pugilist, knocked out Sharkey, a heavy-weight, in a set-to at a certain place last night. Gloves were used." (Daily Bulletin)

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    unverified
    unsanctioned
     
  15. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Stylistically, Jim Corbett has an awful lot in common with Muhammed Ali, who twice stopped Liston. I think that he is the best bet of Jeffries opponents of beating Sonny Liston.