Sorry for the modern intrusion, but Roy Jones - if he beats Joe where does he place?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Oct 4, 2008.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    All time, pound for pound.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #1
  2. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    Somewhere above Bernard Hopkins all time, and not because Bernard lost a decision to Calzaghe. I believe Hopkins won versus Joe.

    Bernard accomplished more at this weight than Jones, but was himself defeated by Jones before going on his historic run. Hopkins is an all time great at middleweight based on accomplishments, and in a head to head regard. Jones does not have all time middleweight accomplishments, but he is a nightmare for most anyone there head to head.

    I regard Roy Jones as the best 168 lb fighter ever.

    Roy is not the best 175 lb fighter ever, but he was a solid champion. Jones has more credentials at this weight than does Hopkins.

    Roy also moved to heavyweight for a fight. That is more than Hopkins has done above 175.

    Come to think of it, I've done all this typing and not answered you question at all. Jones already has the nod on Bernard. It will solidify Jones position as the best ever at 168 even though he is fighting Calzaghe at light heavy. I'd say it gets Roy Jones just a couple spots, if not just, below Ray Leonard.
     
    rekcutnevets, Oct 4, 2008
    rekcutnevets, Oct 4, 2008
    #2
  3. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Top 25 maybe just top 20. A win over Calzaghe would be huge Roy is way past his best his last quality win was 5 years ago and Calzaghe is currently a top 3 p4p. It would really diminish Joe's legacy, but I hope Roy wins it would be great to see an ATG get that one last triumph and cement his legacy even more so.
     
    Minotauro, Oct 4, 2008
    Minotauro, Oct 4, 2008
    #3
  4. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pretty much agree with this. Neither fighter stands to achieve anything out of this. Though it is possible that Calzaghe can move down a little in my estimation if he struggles.

    That said, I think Calzaghe is past his best and showed some signs of decline against Hopkins. And if he further deteriorates for Jones it could be interesting.

    Most likely Jones will be outworked and lose something like 9 rounds to 3 in a stinkfest.

    Calzaghe, if he wanted any legacy whatsoever, should have gone after Pavlik or even Taylor, rather than Jones. Beating up the corpse of Roy Jones should be remembered as a ***** move.
     
    sweet_scientist, Oct 4, 2008
    sweet_scientist, Oct 4, 2008
    #4
  5. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    That is exactly what I wanted to say. Change my post to that.
     
    rekcutnevets, Oct 4, 2008
    rekcutnevets, Oct 4, 2008
    #5
  6. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If Roy won would people rate him the greatest fighter post Ray Leonard? Above Whitaker and Chavez?
     
    Minotauro, Oct 4, 2008
    Minotauro, Oct 4, 2008
    #6
  7. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    If Roy wins now, He's inside my top 20 all-time.
     
    the cobra, Oct 4, 2008
    the cobra, Oct 4, 2008
    #7
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Nice avatar.

    I really don't like to see these pre-fight dismissals of the worth of a win. It is impossible for Jones to get credit because a win can only mean one thing - Calzaghe is shot, finished, or whatever "much more" means? That is not fair. What if Jones drops the first two rounds, then starts to time Calzaghe and finds an earth-shattering left hook which sends Calzaghe into the ropes and Jones manages to TKO Calzaghe - who might or might not have survived if he had gone down clean instead of clattering the ropes?

    Jones TKO3 Calzaghe can mean a hell of a lot more for Jones than you are suggesting.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #8
  9. Mantequilla

    Mantequilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I tend to think all it would do is ruin Calzaghe thoroughly.

    Jones has looked like **** for years.If he suddenly turns it on and beats Calzaghe while lookling really good his losses will be even worse for him as well.
     
    Mantequilla, Oct 4, 2008
    Mantequilla, Oct 4, 2008
    #9
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Roy is in the twilight of his career - he would be coming back from devastating KO losses and apart loss of heart and form, as well as a serious shaving of his greatest attribute, speed. He would need to reinvent himself inside and out to win this fight. I rate Jones higher than most on the Classic forum, I think - I already have him above Chavez who you mention in a later post, for example - I have him at 21 or 22 depending. This would be a win over one of the very best in the world who is much nearer his peak and unbeaten. It would vault him into my top 20 for sure.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #10
  11. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    We know how solid a prime Joe's chin is, so what exactly are the odds of that happening to a still 'relevant' Joe Calzaghe?
     
    sweet_scientist, Oct 4, 2008
    sweet_scientist, Oct 4, 2008
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    This is an extraordinary post from such an excellent mind as yours - if Joe struggles against Jones you would move him down? Jones is most likely bullshitting but he is quite clear that his body and soul have been through a change this year. Perhaps wait to see the fighters in the ring before making indictments like this one.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #12
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Weso know that Hopkins dropped him with timing, not speed. Now which of these statements do you disagree with

    - Jones has faster hands than Hopkins

    - Jones can hit harder than Hopkins

    - Jones has shown himself, in the past, to be a better sparser finisher than Hopkins.


    I do not expect it to happen. But I do say if it is possible for Hopkins to buzz Calzaghe it is possible for Jones to buzz him. I say that if that happens, if Jones is the man he now says he is (which I accept, is by no means assured), there is a chance that Jones will beat a relevant Calzaghe by KO.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #13
  14. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You have him a 21/22 that seems kinda high here is my top 25 right now I can't really see him being placed over any of these guys.

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    Minotauro, Oct 4, 2008
    Minotauro, Oct 4, 2008
    #14
  15. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think Jones has anything left to give. He has been in fantastic shape since the Johnson loss, and he still looks average. I'm no fan of Calzaghe's, but if he is in at least as good a form as he showed against Hopkins (which was not great, but at least a clear level above Jones at the minute) he will have an easy time of it. If he doesn't have an easy time of it, and he is still in rather good shape, Joe will move down in my estimations. That's unlikely though, for if he is in decent form he will beat Jones clearly.

    I'm not sure what Roy's 'conversion' will mean in the ultimate scheme of things. He's been deluded these last 5 years so I don't think it's anything more than the self deception of a once great prize fighter who can not come to terms with his decline.
     
    sweet_scientist, Oct 4, 2008
    sweet_scientist, Oct 4, 2008
    #15
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