Sorry for the modern intrusion, but Roy Jones - if he beats Joe where does he place?

Ability wise Jones Jr is top3 in history whatever happens

Legacy wise this would move Jones up an awful lot, although some will argue that meant he wasnt past it when he lost to Tarver, which he was. I don't know if Jones has enough in the tank though so my money's on Calazage in a closhish decision where Jones doesnt do enough again, but in his prime Jones makes a fool of the Welshman

 

I just don't think his resume (the most important aspect for me when ranking fighters) is good enough to place over these three. If he were to beat Joe the win would probably as good as Jofre's win over Saldivar in my eyes.

 

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Nah, there were many fighters he could have faced. And DM lost to Gonzalez when he was already finished, the fight should have happened much earlies and it´s not the only one.
Like I always they, Jones chosed to follow the money instead the glory. If he would have wanted to be great he would have made them happen, especially fights with DM, Benn, Eubank, McClellan, Ottke, Calzaghe, rematches with Hopkins and Toney, Jirov, Bell, a few solid to good hw contenders beside Ruiz like Byrd. Than we would really speak about one of the greatest. Jones choose not to.

 

Jones was only slightly past it in the second Tarver and the Johnson fight. He was shot afterwards.

 

Whether Roy beats Joe or not, I already have him in the top 20 of all boxers that Ive seen enough footage of.

I focus more on his prime yrs than now but of course if he were to beat an unbeaten top 3 p4p current fighter while past his best then yes, I suppose he deserves to be moved up a few places..... where ? I dont know, its been a while since Ive done a list higher than top 10.... Im hoping as a fan of JC that I dont have that problem of rearranging my list, haha.

 

Jones couldnt do the same things in the first Tarver fight as a 35yo, let alone the second, his stamina had been declining for years and he was hurt by weight making. His prime was probably around 1994-1996

The only people who would say Jones was 'slightly past it' against Tarver are frankly 'haters'

 

Yeah sure, haters :-(

 

Eubank was on the way out by the time Jones made it to 168. Eubank twice lost to Collins less than a year after Jones moved up to take Toney's title. McClellan was comatized upon moving up to 168, it is not Jones' fault that fight did not happen. Jones may have wanted too much to face Benn, but Benn lost to a fighter Jones previously conquered within a year of defeating McClellan. He thoroughly defeated Hopkins and Toney, so I don't see how not having rematches with them can effect his legacy. Calzaghe won the WBO super middleweight title after Jones started campaigning at light heavy. No one outside of Wales knew who Calzaghe was. Ottke came along as a champion in a division below Jones even later than Calzaghe.

How can you criticize a former middleweight for not fighting Jirov, Bell, or Byrd? That's like saying Hagler's legacy is hurt because he didn't challenge Holyfield or Spinks.

 

Easy, Jones moved up to hw to fight Ruiz. Jones was said, destinied and thought of as the next top5 p4p fighter. If he really wanted to be that he would have made this fights happen just like the greats of the past did.
It does not matter that DM didn´t want to come to America, if Jones would have want to be a real great he would have went to Germany even for a career low purse to fight him. He didn´t, he just followed the money. If a fighter like Ottke does so, it´s okay because it´s not in his talent to be such a great. It´s something totally different with Jones.

 

I would describe you as a "hater" a nice bloke but a hater none the less.

 

Jones did not need to further pad his record with Ottke or Calzaghe. It would do him no good what so ever. He would have ended Calzaghe's win streak, and Calzaghe's legacy would be gone with no improvement to Jones' at all.

 

DM - wouldnt come to America, RJJ wouldnt get ripped off in Germany after Soul, and DM and Otke both ripped off foreigners in this period. DM wouldn't have been competitive, he needed a gift against the RJJ leftover like Richard Hall, a gift against Eubank leftover Rocchigiani and a loss to Gonzalez

Benn - Jones beat Mallinger who got a UD and robbed against Benn. Fight should have happened after McCellan but Jones would have had to sign his life away to Don King who had the options on Benn. BEnn himself admitted he'd lose but wanted the payday

Eubank - Eubank turned him down, Eubank later admitted he'd lose

Otke - wasn't particularly good and wasn't in the same division

Calazage - happening now, Calazage wasnt acknowledged until recently, Jones and Calazage are saying promoters got in the way of it happening in the past. A few years ago Calazage said the 1 fighter he couldn't beat was Jones.

Hopkins rematch - Hopkins was offered a 60-40 split but decided to hang on for a Delahoya payday.

Toney rematch - winning every round at ease isnt enough?

Jirov - was a cruserweight belt holder for 2years making only 3 successful defenses before losing it to a Jones leftover you dont think Ruiz was the better fight?

Bell - first won a vacant belt in 2003 around the time Jones fought Tarver, were you actually around boxing at this time? Incidently Bell lives next door to my fiance's friend

BTW you missed the more credible Nunn, Collins (asked for too much money) and Rochiagani

 

My argument is that if he would have wanted to be real great he would have made at least some of these fights happen. He didn´t but instead did for what guys like Calzaghe, Ottke or even Erdei get´s critizised, taking on average fighters. I know I forgot some names, I just picked up the first names that come to my hand around his weightclasses and his time.

 

That may be right, or it would have brought out the best of Joe afterwrds, who knows. And beating the two best smws in the history of the sport till today wouldn´t be padding to his record but would mean more than beating average fighters defending his lhw title.