Sources for annual rankings prior to 1924?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rumsfeld, May 6, 2017.


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  1. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Is there anything out there covering the days from before Ring Magazine?
     
    Rumsfeld, May 6, 2017
    Rumsfeld, May 6, 2017
    #1
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Many newspapers published rankings that worked along the same lines, but finding them can be a bit hit and miss today.
     
    janitor, May 7, 2017
    janitor, May 7, 2017
    #2
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  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Matt Donnellon produced some annual rankings after extensive research on that period.

    How accurate they are depends on individual preference I guess.
     
    lufcrazy, May 7, 2017
    lufcrazy, May 7, 2017
    #3
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  4. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you happen to know if he has a website that lists these? I tried searching and kept coming up with results for State Farm auto insurance. :lol:
     
    Rumsfeld, May 7, 2017
    Rumsfeld, May 7, 2017
    #4
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Champion Corbett
    2. Jackson
    3. Goddard
    4. Slavin
    5. Choynski
    6. Fitzsimmons
    7. Hall
    8. Godfrey
    9. McAuliffe
    10. Kilrain

    Champion Corbett
    2. Jackson
    3. Fitzsimmons
    4. Denver Smith
    5. Hall
    6. Goddard
    7. Slavin
    8. Choynski
    9. McAuliffe
    10. Godfrey

    Champion Corbett
    2. Jackson
    3. Fitzsimmons
    4. Smith
    5. Choynski
    6. Maher
    7. Goddard
    8. Hall
    9. Slavin
    10. Godfrey

    Champion Corbett
    2. Maher
    3. Fitzsimmons
    4. Jackson
    5. Slavin
    6. Smith
    7. Choynski
    8. Felix
    9. Hall
    10. Creedon

    Champion Corbett
    2. Fitzsimmons
    3 Maher
    4. Choynski
    5. Sharkey
    6. Armstrong
    7. Creedon
    8. Goddard
    9. Ruhlin
    10. O’Donnell

    Champion Fitzsimmons
    2. Maher
    3. Sharkey
    4. Choynski
    5. Childs
    6. Corbett
    7. Ruhlin
    8. Jeffries
    9. O’Donnell
    10. Armstrong

    Champion Fitzsimmons
    2. Jeffries
    3. Sharkey
    4. Maher
    5. Corbett
    6. McCoy
    7. Ruhlin
    8. Childs
    9. Armstrong
    10. Choynski

    Champion Jeffries
    2. Sharkey
    3. Fitxsimmons
    4. Maher
    5. McCoy
    6. Corbett
    7. Kennedy
    8. Ruhlin
    9. Childs
    10. Martin

    Champion Jeffries
    2 Fitzsimmons
    3 Corbett
    4 McCoy
    5 Ruhlin
    6 Sharkey
    7 Childs
    8 Maher
    9 Kennedy
    10 Martin


    Champion Jeffries
    2 Ruhlin
    3 McCoy
    4 Childs
    5 Sharkey
    6 Root
    7 Martin
    8 Maher
    9 Griffin
    10 Gardner

    Champion Jeffries
    2 Fitzsimmons
    3 Ruhlin
    4 Martin
    5 Johnson
    6 Gardner
    7 O’Brien
    8 Root
    9 Hart
    10 Carter

    Champion Jeffries
    2 Fitzsimmons
    3 Johnson
    4 Ruhlin
    5 Gardner
    6 Root
    7 Hart
    8 O’Brien
    9 Armstrong
    10 McVey

    Champion Jeffries
    2 Johnson
    3 Hart
    4 Root
    5 O’Brien
    6 Gardner
    7 Ruhlin
    8 Ferguson
    9 Martin
    10 McVey

    Champion Hart
    2 Johnson
    3 O’Brien
    4 Jeanette
    5 Root
    6 Fitzsimmons
    7 Ruhlin
    8 Kaufman
    9 J Twin Sullivan
    10 Schreck

    That's until 1905
     
    lufcrazy, May 7, 2017
    lufcrazy, May 7, 2017
    #5
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  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Champion Burns
    2 Johnson
    3 O’Brien
    4 Langford
    5 Jeanette
    6 McVey
    7 Kaufman
    8 Schreck
    9 Hart
    10 Ruhlin

    Champion Burns
    2 Johnson
    3 Kaufman
    4 Langford
    5 Jeanette
    6 McVey
    7 O’Brien
    8 Schreck
    9 Jim Flynn
    10 Sullivan

    Champion Johnson
    2 Langford
    3 Kaufman
    4 Burns
    5 Jeanette
    6 McVey
    7 O’Brien
    8 Hart
    9 Ross
    10 Schreck

    Champion Johnson Champion Johnson
    2 Langford 2 McVey
    3 Jeanette 3 Langford
    4 McVey 4 Jeanette
    5 Kaufman 5 Wells
    6 Burns 6 Jim Flynn
    7 Lang 7 Al Palzar
    8 Jim Flynn 8 Carl Morris
    9 Dan Flynn 9 Dan Flynn
    10 Curran 10 Clarke

    Champion Johnson Champion Johnson
    2 Langford 2 Smith
    3 Jeanette 3 Langford
    4 McVey 4 Jeanette
    5 Gunboat Smith 5 McVey
    6 Willard 6 Jim Johnson
    7 Ross 7 Pelkey
    8 Mc Carthy 8 Willard
    9 Jim Flynn 9 Moran
    10 Palzar 10 Carpentier

    Champion Johnson
    2 Langford
    3 Jeanette
    4 McVey
    5 Carpentier
    6 Clarke
    7 Dillon
    8 Wills
    9 Levinsky
    10 Coffey

    Champion Willard Champion Willard
    2 Johnson 2 Wills
    3 Moran 3 Miske
    4 Dillon 4 Dillon
    5 Wills 5 Morris
    6 McVey 6 Levinsky
    7 Jeanette 7 Moran
    8 coffey 8 Weinert
    9 Langford 9 McVey
    10 Morris 10 Jeanette

    Champion Willard
    2 Wills
    3 Fulton
    4 Langford
    5 Norfolk
    6 Miske
    7 Greb
    8 Dempsey
    9 Jeanette
    10 Gibbons

    Champion Willard Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills 2 Wills
    3 Dempsey 3 Fulton
    4 Fulton 4 Greb
    5 Gibbons 5 Gibbons
    6 Greb 6 Carpentier
    7 Miske 7 Miske
    8 Meehan 8 Johnson
    9 Madden 9 Norfolk
    10 Jeanette 10 Brennan

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Fulton
    4 Greb
    5 Gibbons
    6 Carpentier
    7 Miske
    8 Norfolk
    9 Tunney
    10 Weinert

    Champion Dempsey Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills 2 Wills
    3 Fulton 3 Greb
    4 Gibbons 4 Gibbons
    5 Tunney 5 Miske
    6 Carpentier 6 Tunney
    7 Miske 7 F.Johnson
    8 Greb 8 Brennan
    9 Beckett 9 Beckett
    10 Brennan 10 Carpentier

    Champion Dempsey
    2 Wills
    3 Firpo
    4 Tunney
    5 Carpentier
    6 Miske
    7 Gibbons
    8 Greb
    9 Renault
    10 F.Johnson

    That's until 1924
     
    lufcrazy, May 7, 2017
    lufcrazy, May 7, 2017
    #6
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  7. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    @lufcrazy - this is perfect! Exactly the type of thing I was looking for.

    1. Do you know if this information is readily available on-line?

    2. Do you happen to know if he has compiled similar lists for the other 7 weight classes during the same time period?
     
    Rumsfeld, May 7, 2017
    Rumsfeld, May 7, 2017
    #7
  8. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Ah! I think I finally found where you got it from, and it's giving me the impression that the answer to question 2 above is unfortunately a no.
     
    Rumsfeld, May 7, 2017
    Rumsfeld, May 7, 2017
    #8
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I don't recall him ever doing it for other classes. That's not to say someone else out there hasn't took the time to do it, but no one has ever posted it here.
     
    lufcrazy, May 8, 2017
    lufcrazy, May 8, 2017
    #9
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  10. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you very much for your help.

    While this is exactly the type of thing I was looking for, in order to keep some level of consistency for the original 8 weight classes, I think I'm going to use 1924 as my starting point. Appreciate it! And the list was a great look, even though I won't be using it for this, I may use it for something else somewhere down the line now that I'm aware of its existence.
     
    Rumsfeld, May 8, 2017
    Rumsfeld, May 8, 2017
    #10
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    What's the project?
     
    lufcrazy, May 8, 2017
    lufcrazy, May 8, 2017
    #11
  12. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Basically I'm experimenting with a ranking formula, that I think helps eliminate personal bias in ranking. Will have the heavyweight list done in a day or 2. I had no idea what the results would be when I started, and I have no idea what they will turn out to be for all the other weight classes.

    The heavyweight results were interesting, although the system does have some inherent biases in it.

    One of the main problems, is without historical rankings like those you provided for other weight classes pre-1924, boxers who peaked before that time are excluded. So I'm just making it so that 1924 is the starting point. Which isn't ideal, but that's the data I have to work with.

    I COULD use what you provided for the heavyweight list, but I'm looking to be as consistent as possible across all weight classes.
     
    Rumsfeld, May 8, 2017
    Rumsfeld, May 8, 2017
    #12
  13. Bustajay

    Bustajay Feel the Steel/Balls Deep Full Member

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    Sounds like an interesting topic for RUMMYS CORNOR:boxing1:aplastao::ARMS1:
     
    Bustajay, May 8, 2017
    Bustajay, May 8, 2017
    #13
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  14. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Going to try it, as I'm very curious to see what surprising results might surface in the original 8. But it probably won't be all 17 divisions, as I've grown extremely reluctant to try the newer classes upon rediscovering they abandoned ranking the interim divisions for a few years during the late 80s. At some point I was aware of this, as I'd remembering reading it or seeing it somewhere, but it had slipped my mind again until recently.

    I suppose I can still try them, however, based upon whatever data is available, as a similar problem exists in the original 8 during the WWII era.
     
    Rumsfeld, May 8, 2017
    Rumsfeld, May 8, 2017
    #14
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  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Sounds good, I love a good formula.

    I tried something a few years back like this, ultimately I gave up and ranked everyone h2h lol.
     
    lufcrazy, May 8, 2017
    lufcrazy, May 8, 2017
    #15
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