SRL vs. Mugabi

My pick is Mugabi by KO.

 

Oof-fah! Leonard in one, just like Terry Norris did to the beast.This is no contest.

 

Leonard, no problem.

 

You're wrong again both of you.

Norris did take him out in one but Terry Norris was Terry Norris. he easily proved to be Leonard's master in combat so in truth, Leonard is no Terry Norris. He wasn't nearly as tough and didn't have championships given to him the way Leonard did.

Terry had to earn his championship.

if you're talking the Mugabi of 1986 I think the only other middleweight around who could take him was peak Hearns. Leonard was petrified of young middleweights. That's why he chose to give up his WBC title instead of defending just once. You can't defend that.

At the time Mugabi faced Marvin, he was like iron fist. No way you can start your offense with him swinging at the same time. He just hit too hard for Leonard and his power was up there with Roldan himself. imagine leonard catching the uppercut that Hagler caught on the chin, rd.4. He'd be dead.

Even a badly faded Hagler had leonard doing drunk steps with his uppercut, rd.5. Since Leonard wasn't elusive enough to escape harm he fails to last the distance.

Mugabi wins around round 7.

 

how can you say that? Even Ray Leonard-kevin Howard was a contest. So much that it made him retire.



*Inching my way towards post #3000

 

Leonard had too many skills for a one dimensional puncher like Mugabi. He would be to smart to get caught by Mugabi's one hope of victory. But it would only take one brutale right hand to make things very interesting...

 

Leonard by UD 12

 

SRL struggles but prevails through ring generalship, speed, and a chin forged by Zeus himself.

 

but leonard's chin wasn't as strong as you may think. The faded hearns put him down twice but couldn't put do **** to Kinchen before him even though he struck James far more often and was sharper. Kinchen was tore aprt by Roldan the year before and Roldan is comparable with Mugabi.

More proof: Leonard was dropped by the smaller Kevin Howard so when you think it over, it's pretty ridiculous to think Leonard gets very far.

 

Leonard was pretty faded himself, and you aren't about to suggest Hearns couldn't punch, are you? I could name a few fighters Hearns could 'do **** to'. Cuevas, for instance. Heck, his punch still functioned at cruiserweight.

I understand Mugabi hits harder than Hearns, and your point is that Leonard's chin is useless since Hearns' punch is enough to knock Leonard down. I say in retort that Hearns punches far sharper and faster and therefore caught Leonard way worse than Mugabi could -- I'm not saying Leonard just 'takes' a Mugabi swing for the fences roundhouse right hand and stands there blinking. I'm saying he has the chin to deal with Mugabi's power in a more, shall we say, indirect sense.

 

I can understand why anyone would think that except I know what I saw in the Howard fight. I am not trying to manipulate my way through to proclaim Leonard the loser.

Not only that but Leonard never made a defense at 160. If he were really any good he would have but instead he moved up another weight class so he could get a match with lalonde who can't even fight. And guess what? he got hurt in that one too, even floored. lalonde was nobody.

Think about it Pea. Mugabi was about as good a hitter as Roldan. The same Roldan who pummelled Kinchen by tko. James was very durable but even so wouldn't wobble when Tommy struck him clean which was dozens of times for 12 rounds.

And Tommy put Ray down the way Lalonde and Howard did. What do you think John's going to do? Mugabi had no fear or respect for Leonard. he'd hurt him but unlike Lalonde and Hearns, he wouldn't let him off the hook and he'd wind up just about killing him.

 

how can Ray be faded with only 35 fights??

Besides, the ring rust was gone so if anything he was sharper than before 87 with two more fights under his belt.

Tommy was the one who was faded. You could see it in his previous fights the last two years. hitman began to look stiff which is a sure sign of decline.

Then the kinchen fight was hairy for Tommy and James no doubt softened him up. That's how you become faded, Shake. Even faded, Tommy punched him to the floor twice. That's enough proof for me that Ray didn't have a very good set of whiskers.

So no one can boast of Leonard's chin when he got dropped in so many fights and then expect him to survive a guy like Mugabi. That's just wrong.

 

This is the first dialogue we've had on Leonard, and I'm sure you've heard it before, but please hear me out anyway.

Your views have some merit, but I think you're biased against Leonard. This is not an insult or criticism, but simply a helpful suggestion. With any fighter, this much emphasis on his negative traits--especially when most boxing fans disagree with you--would tend to indicate that you are too extreme in your position. One or two qualifiers and asterisks in Leonard's resume would be reasonable, but the number of qualifiers you suggest would mean that Leonard was the luckiest man on earth.

Perhaps if you softened it somewhat, more would heed your comments.

 

Thaks for dropping in CT. I too think my argument has a lot of merit.

Yes there are many negatives but leonard set the bar very low for himself and got more support than any fighter I ever known. Not bothering to defend his other titles and yet making several millions per fight. Who else could get with that? And he wasn't even that good.

The two titles in one night, the fake retirements, refusal to take rematches. Real fighters don't need this much coddling. And the knockdowns I witnessed don't instill confidence in his chin.

And the job Norris did on him should have never happened. To lose is one thing but to get owned the way he did confirms that Leonard was no all time great.

Seriously CT. Where was leonard when Hagler and hearns were peaking? he said he wanted a piece of Marvin but in the end he split the scene even though he was supposed to be the world's best fighter.

No one can take his excuse for retirement seriously when he comes back into the sport and has several more fights.

All I see is "Oh, Leonard got bored". We both know that's bull crap because he said upon his successful return he only came back for Hagler. The same Hagler he wouldn't fight years before. And then, how does he arrive at deeming lalonde also as worthy? Did he have the same ambitious goal for wanting to get Lalonde in the ring?

I just think he couldn't cut it and felt he was going to wind up hurt against the younger fighters like what happened in the Norris fight.

Look at it and you'll see Ray was no match for a guy who was given no chance to win. Where is the great adaptability the media boasted of?

You see? It's a figment of imagination. It doesn't exist and it never did. Likewise with the chin. If you didn't see it in the Geraldo fight, you'll never see because Leonard gets wobbly like I said when struck sharply and that goes for arm punchers like Geraldo.

I just don't see what people are talking about when they compliment him on his chin because I've seen more evidence to the contrary.

How does Achilles the dumb, who never knew anything until I taught him thru much pain and humiliation, arrive at Leonard beating John the beast "no problem"?

Put him in with the Mugabi Hagler had to tackle and from where I sit, Leonard's a dead man.