SRL vs. Mugabi

There is no baiting going on red rooster,and i have never debated with you on any other forum......
My final words: RAY L=PURE GOLD,if the truth be told......:hat

 

The only reason I can't go along with you is that Leonard really wasn't that good and should be obvious to all. You're brain washed.

You should be boasting about Roy Jones, not that bum leonard.

There's no debating this.

 

By implication then 90% or more of the forum posters are brainwashed because most think ray is a great boxer,as do most historians,magazines and boxers themselves...If you feel im brainwashed,then fine dont debate.......NEXT!!!!!! :hey

 

If Ray was so great how come he was floored so much? he only had 36 fights.

And if Ray was half the fighter historians say he was he should have had no problem with Howard and Norris. He should have whipped Hearns n a rematch because all the historians, magazines, and boxers themselves picked him. I don't know anyone who didn't pick glorious leonard to knock out Tommy. Instead, a world wide audience saw Tommy beat him and said Leonard got a gift decision.

Weren't the historians saying Ray would whip Terry without a problem?

Instead it was Terry who whipped Ray no problem. And this time it wasn't even close and Leonard got real sad and depressed and quit because he was embarrassed the same way after Howard embarrassed him

You got a lot of explaining to do and remember, no lying.

 

Does a man with an iron chin get floored by someone like Howard?

You're not very good at this are you Enquirer?

 

It was pretty late in his career, and flukes happen! Heck, I remember De la Hoya being floored early his career in the first round by a man not known as a good puncher. He got up, though, and finished the guy. That's usually what Leonard did -- he got up to win.

 

His "injury" didn't keep him out of the ring. He kept himself out of the ring. It's not like you are put in prison or have your license taken from you in the case of Tyson or Ali. The excuse is illegitimate, as much so as Leonard's career.

He came back remember? For Howard. For shot Hagler. For lalonde. For hearns. For Duran. For Lalonde. For Camacho. That's 7 times you brainwashed sap. he just didn't have the nerve to face Hagler on a prime time stage.

he would have come back after the Camacho fight if the outcome hadn't left such a big impact on him (get it?) and taught that dog a lesson he'd never forget-he doesn't belong in the ring unless the opponent is handicapped or walking with a cane.

In the words of Hector Camacho: "this is the last time he comes back to the ring. I guarantee it" putting this prediction up there with Namath's guarantee in SB 3.

 

I agree he ducked Hagler until he was over the hill.

 

No offense Shake but he was only 27 at the time and he had very little wear on him. Of course he finished the guy-he was supposed to! What else can you expect from such a miniscule opponent with 4 losses? But honestly, who expected so much of a problem?

 

Shake, remember that my comments are directed at Enquirer who I intend to run off this thread.

 

Oh, that's fine, I'm just happy discussing Leonard. in-between. You gjust keep doing your running-off thingy, I don't mind. =)

 

And here you were yesterday defending Sibson at the age of 30 as many are past it then



Of course every village idiot needs some serious hypocrite in em

:good

 

Red rooster,you couldnt run **** out of your arse even if you had diarrhoea.......
anyway,you said you didnt want to debate and now you do?
I feel you are just trying to get a rise out of me.....
Anyway,up until howard ray had faced major league punchers in duran twice and the biggest welter bomber of all time in hearns and was NEVER off his feet....And those two surely landed hard punches on ray...
The howard knockdown was just a balance knockdown,not even a flash knockdown,no different to toney being kd against jones,yet toney has no chin problems to speak of really...
Against your IDOL marvin (who i repect immensely but i dont inflate him to the status of jesus,nor do i downgrade the guy who beat him,really marvin must be **** if he cant beat ray on your criteria,whether marvin was shot or not,which he wasnt,just past his prime as was ray.)
Ray was not knocked down or even close to it. He was hurt in the fifth,ninth and maybe the twelfth but significantly punched his way out of trouble in the ninth,i havent see many weak chinned fighters who punched their way out of trouble versus a guy like marvin when hurt and still lived to tell the tale,have you?...
Against duran 3 ray was never really hurt or knocked down (though he copped one big right hand in the 11th which put plenty of stitches in his eye.) yet duran had just beaten a huge tough middleweight in barkley in a great fight and knocked him down in the process showing he could still punch at middle,yet ray beat him easily...
Against tommy hearns ray got knocked down by a rejuvenated,motivated,still very hard punching and out for revenge tommy twice...The knockdown in the 11th came courtesy of three consecutive tremendous right hands flush on ray,yet he got up and in the next round almost stopped tommy in a tremendous rally...Not bad for a chinny guy against a guy who knocked out world class light heavies,was the only man to ko duran,and hurt marvin more than anybody else with a single shot.....
Against lalonde ray got knocked down and hurt in the ninth yet he won by brutal KO and showed great heart/skill against a far bigger guy who though not the most skilled in the world was definately a puncher...If ray can the take the flush punches of a lt heavy/super middle i think his chin is sound,especially when his best weight is welter,possibly lt middle....Ray was 160 in that fight versus lalonde who was 168 and probably 175-180 by the time he got in the ring....
Against norris ray showed that he finally had lost his touch (not helped by a two year layoff and going back to 154 after being a middle for a few years.) and got knocked down twice against a sharp,speedy and hard hitting terry norris. However if ray was soo chinny norris would have knocked him out or stopped him,especially given norris punched him on the floor and was dealing with an 'old fighter' well past it....
Finally,the camacho debacle just showed that having five years off and then trying to beat an active and very good fighter in camacho doesnt work,especially when way past your best.....But this loss is up there with alis 'display against holmes/berbick,duran v joppy,tyson v mcbride and such other way past prime performances(note i dont include hagler v leonard in that one,ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!)....Im sure most are of the opinion that ray would easily beat both norris and camacho in rays' prime years....
I agree ray may have been tough to negotiate with and picked his opponents a little after the hagler fight but he still took on very good fighters and mainly was after big money,big legacy fights....I give him this concession for not fighting the nunns,hills and such like because he was trying to make history and loads of money/fame in only a short space of time as he probably knew he wasnt at his very best and only had a few years or less left in him,he also wasnt a true lt heavy,obviously.... He could have retired after the hagler fight and still been regarded as an atg,hell even before the hagler fight he was regarded as an atg.....
I could go on but im getting a bit bored,and ive said before that if you really believe ray was chinny then hearns,duran and even the marvelous one are crap punchers,cos they all landed hard on him.....
Good day......:bbb :rasta :happy atsch :rofl :smoke :rasta :hi: :hat
:deal

 

Leonard gets no 'props' for beating a shot Hagler but Leonards loss to Norris is considered enough proof that Leonard couldn't take a punch?

Rooster, you look at Leonards career from crazy and bizarre angles in order to make it fit your existing opinion of Leonard.

 

Hagler was taking on the Roldan's, The Mugabi's, the Hamsho's the Hearns' and didn't even want to fight no more but leonard was trying to talk him out of not retiring. Big difference from 1982 isn't it?

When Marvin was in his 2nd, 3rd year as champ, Ray wouldn't take a fight with Marvin no matter what but he'd take a fight with Howard until his face met with Howard's fist and he felt his guts turn to jelly then he retired-again!

What was his excuse this time? His eye? he already used that excuse up.

Besides, Ray couldn't be washed up with only 38 fights. Leonard was as healthy as a kitten for all his later fights so how can Ray be worn out?

Let's not forget Ray was the big favorite yet Norris violated him. That wasn't supposed to happen. Hagler lost a close decision which most observers including myself believe to be one of the biggest injustices done to a champion and we all know in our hearts that Leonard was never deserving of being middleweight champion and he knows it himself because he was too scared to defend it the way he was too scared to face Marvin in his prime. He fared well against a used up fighter but he had the option of ducking out of the sport because he had his "eye" excuse to fall back on which nearly everyone still buys except for me.

Don't listen to the lies of Enquirer. He's looking for every way to excuse Leonard for getting ***** slapped by Norris and even denies that Howard didn't floor him even though no sane person would ever dispute it.

Ray wasn't out of boxing two years-closer to one year but Enquirer never learned how to round his numbers when they taught him in Elementary school.

How could a real man let Norris do what he did to leonard? He stopped putting up a fight after Norris slapped him down in the 2, 3 and like he is known to do just said "maybe if I lay down for him he'll go easy on me. I'll just stop fighting and let him win so I don't get hurt".

We all know how leonard hates getting hit.