SRR: Pound-for-pound great or master cherry picker?

It’s a very long & storied career. You’d need a much larger pattern of suspect behaviour for a case.

 

What ever he did right or wrong, in my eyes he's the greatest.

 

I think it's a stretch to imagine that Robinson was scared off by the prospect of a 6-round exhibition against Cocoa Kid, who was in his mid thirties by then and hadn't been a contender for several years. Having said that, the Kid did reportedly deck Robinson in a sparring session a few months later.

 

Robinson could be a bit of a diva when getting fights over the line, but he was far from a cherry picker. As mentioned, the cases cited are pretty flimsy on that front.

 

If he was a cherry picker, he faced some wonderful opposition for someone you would deem as such, including top 20 all time boxers at LW (Angott x 2), WW (Gavilan x 2) MW (La Motta x 6) and LHW (Maxim).

 

Honestly, this thread on SRR as a cherry picker makes no sense.

Sure, if we look SRR’s resume hard enough we will find some “shoulda, woulda, coulda” fight X or Y.

But that also applies to everybody else. Let's check the resume of every and any ATG and we will find instances of "cherry picking" and avoiding problematic fights: because you were not in your best condition, because the purse was bad, because the opponent was seen as particularly dangerous, because the proposed conditions were disadvantageous, etc.

Thus, so what if SRR once in a while decided a fight was not worth the trouble?

That is the nature of the game. And that is fine, especially when a young boxer is at the very beginning of his career. You want him to build his resume, develop his skills, get experience and feel comfortable, nurturing him with some "easy" bouts. How many times in this very forum we have complained "They brought him up too soon, too fast, he was not ready yet and they ruined him"?.

However, a totally different issue are the serial cherry pickers who literally build their whole carriers on micromanagement, reaching the top and staying there with minimum risk.

Guess what? That applies to guys like Canelo and Fury. That doesn’t apply to a true and proven ATG like SRR.

 

Burley's biggest purse was $6000
Why would Ray take on a man in a heavier weight class for peanuts?
given the right financial incentive he was happy to fight bigger men eg Lamotta.

"Ray did the right thing not fighting me, there was no money in it ,we would just have knocked each other off",

Cocoa Kid was past it and suffering from pugilistica dementia.
Ray took him on as a sparring partner.

• To reiterate Murderers Row
  1940's Welterweight end of year top ten
  40
  Robinson unranked, his first year as a pro lightweight
  Burley no 3
  Williams no6
  Cocoa Kid no7
  
  41
  Robinson no1
  Burley no 5
  Williams no6
  Cocoa Kid no7
  
  42
  Robinson no1
  Cocoa Kid no 4
  Edgar no7
  After this NO Murderers Row featured in the Rings end of year ratings at Welterweight.
  
  1950's Middleweight end of year top ten .
  One of the Row ranked in the whole decade Artie Towne at no 10 in1955.
  
  50-60's Middleweight end of year ratings NO Murderers Row ranked.
  
  From 1940 Marshall was top ten ranked at Light heavy.
  
  From 1942 Bolden was top ten ranked at Light heavy..
  
  From1943 Booker was top ten ranked at Light heavy.
  
  From1946 Moore and Chase were top ten ranked at Light heavy.
  This was the year Robinson won the Welterweight title..

Mayweather is a cherry picker imo.

 

• Cherry PIcker?
• Armstrong was the number 2 welterweight when they fought and the next year he was no1!
  After losing to Robinson Armstrong had a further26 fights winning 21 losing 3 and drawing2
  Between 1942 and 1950 Robinson fought 38 middleweights while still able to comfortably make the welterweight limit.
  He won 37 of them, losing only to Lamotta. Ten of those fights were against top ten ranked middleweights and in most cases they were ranked above members of the Murderers Row.
  Guys like
  No 5. Abrams giving him 12 lbs
  
  No6 Lamotta giving him13lbs
  
  No1 Lamotta giving him16 lbs x2
  
  No 10 Dellicurti giving him 8lbs
  
  No 3 Lamotta giving him10lbs
  
  No 10 Dellicurti giving him 9 lbs
  
  No 4 Basora giving him 5lbs
  
  No3 Villemain giving him 9 lbs
  
  No 3 Villemain giving him 4lbs
  
  No 7 Barnes giving him4 lbs
  
  • 
    

 

Cocoa Kid retired in1948 which is what I meant to say,he had his last fight in August of that year.
Oh and I have been looking it up I always do!

"Cocoa Kid is used to denigrate Robinson and its said that Robinson ducked him while he was rated all this time. Not true. Robinson won his title in December 1946. A week after that Cocoa Kid lost an 8 rounder to 11-2 Eddie Oneill. Two weeks after that he drew with 15-3-3 Oneill Bell. He won 6 of his next 13 fights and ended his career 178-56-11. Yet we are supposed to believe Robinson ran out of a match out of fear with a guy who had been retired a year and lost his last fight which was an 8 rounder to an unknown with a 26-11 record." Steve Compton.


"Just before Ring 1942 rankings were released Robinson defeated Izzy Jannazzo twice in successive fights. Janazzo has beaten Cocao Kid twice in the preceding two years and was 1-1-1 with Holman Williams. “SC

"Ray ducked me. George Gainford (Ray's manager) admitted that much. But, I can't say I blame him. There wasn't no money in us fighting each other. All we would have done is knock each other off."

"You know, to me the most remarkable thing about Ray's career is that he didn't even get a shot at the welterweight title til he was 26- or the middleweight title til' he was 30! You think he was the greatest? What do you think he'd a been if he'd gotten his chances when he deserved them? You wanna know the truth? If I coulda' got my shot, I wouldn't have risked it fighting someone like Ray."
Charley Burley

 

Now for some FACTS !
After1942 No Murderers Row were ranked in the welterweight division.
In 1941Robinson entered the ratings at no1
1941
1.Robinson
2.Wilson
3 Zivic
5 Burley

1942
1.Robinson
2.Arnstrong
3.Wilson
4. Cocoa Kid
Robinson fought and beat
Wilson
Zivic
Wilson
All ranked above Burley and Cocoa Kid so how,[ especially as Robinson , was not even champion until1946 ,]does that constitute a duck?



After 1950 No Murderers Row were ranked in the middleweight division.
Robinson won the middleweight title in 1951.

 

• Instead of fighting a Murderers Row member who were unranked in the 50's when he became middleweight champion! Ray fought.
  Guys like;
  Panter
  Olsonx3
  Fullmer x4
  Giardello
  Turpinx2
  Castellani
  Basiliox2
  Barnes
  Abrams
  Villemainx2
  Dellanoit
  Pender x2
  Lamotta x5
  Graziano
  
  Did Robinson avoid
  Bell
  Basora
  Wilson
  Costner
  Wade
  Jones
  Turpin
  Armstrong
  Barnes
  Mims
  Hudson
  Gavilan
  • 
    

 

C'mon man.

 

When the articles of Burley's manager talking about the 50 000 offer to Robinson were posted it didn't hold up under scrutiny.

First of all, the date for the proposed fight was something like 12 days after Ray would fight LaMotta. Facing those guys 12 days apart of course was a deal breaker in itself for Robinson.

Also no promoter was named, neither how they would get together a joint record purse (with the LaMotta fight) for Robinson for a fight with the no name Burley.

The whole thing just seemed like a PR stunt, tbh.