SRR vs. margarito

Margarito ko's SSR overrated ass.

 

Very provocative match-up, c510. It seems to range from total wipe-out by Margo to solid UD, with maybe some feint voices for SRR.

Be curious to see what the feedback for this thread would be in the classic section, and the reasoning behind it.

My guess is, at the very least, it would stir a lively discussion.

Being from the Stone Age, and getting boxing tips from SRR, my impartiality is suspect here, but I'd certainly like to stand back and see what posters think.

 

bump

 

John, even the guys of the General Forum know this matchup is a joke. They're just fooling around. Don't get too flustered with all this nonsense.

 

Pac knocks out both of these bums in 5 or less :deal

 

Well, I've seen more Cerdan in Raging Bull than I've seen in actual footage of his fights, so I don't know enough about him. Watching these two clips and some other ones on youtube doesn't help. How does he deal with pressure? How _____.. I would need to see more of him against better competition to rate him accurately and consider how he would do against Margarito. From looking at boxrec, he seems to have a very solid chin. Can you tell me a little about his fight with Lamotta? It says he dislocated his shoulder after getting dropped in the first. From these youtube clips, Cerdan looks much better to me than Lamotta ever did. Do you think he would have beaten Lamotta if it wasn't for the injury?

I seriously pick the 154 pound Margarito who fought Santos over any version of Lamotta though. I've seen enough Lamotta to favor Margarito comfortably over him. Lamotta doesn't have the power to KO him and is much sloppier than Margarito, which says a lot. The size advantage isn't big and Lamotta doesn't have Margarito's boxing skill, which again says a lot. He would have success on the inside sometimes, swarming Margarito as he backs up in straight lines and doesn't cover up effectively, but at any other range he would be getting owned. Margarito would land the cleaner, harder shots consistently over the course of 12 rounds and win a decision.

 

I don't know if he'd have beaten LaMotta, because what LaMotta had, that a lot of the top modern analysts on this site(such as yourself and Amsterdam) don't seem to get, went a bit deeper. As strong and powerful as a guy like Cerdan was, with as good a combination of boxing/banging, he wasn't going to hurt LaMotta, and he wasn't going to outmuscle him, which is the same with so many pressure fighters that would be matched up with him. Cerdan could box as well, you saw his countering ability in the short clips I showed you, but unless you had Robinson footwork you weren't keeping him off all night because he was simply relentless. So Cerdan, while being the superior boxer, is outmatched in all of his strengths aside from punching power(nullified by Jake's chin). If he were to win, he'd have to be on the backfoot all night, which is not his game, and I doubt he keeps a prime Jake off him all night, or wins the exchanges in the long run. But if it does go to a Decision I could see Marcel winning with the right gameplan.

Anyway, the things going in LaMotta's favor are unmatched strength, durability, stamina, and pressure. He didn't have great punching power, which is why he relied on his body attack to drain his opponents and set them up for the late stoppages or points wins. He wasn't the most skilled boxer, but that wasn't his style. Technically he wasn't a great boxer, but technical skills ain't all there is to boxing. I think that's been proven quite enough. He did have underrated head movement however, something they didn't quite catch in Raging Bull. On to the matchup with Margarito.

I wouldn't say he's much sloppier. Margarito is pretty damn wide with his punches, he just fights with a more standard, upright boxing style, whereas LaMotta fought with the crouching style of the time used mainly by pressure fighters in his day.

I don't think in literal terms Margarito hit harder than LaMotta, though he might P4P. As for the rest, you picture a limited boxer like Margarito fighting off the backfoot all night(despite the fact that you said yourself when pressed he backs up in straight lines and doesn't cover effectively) and getting the best of Jake when he'll be pressed all night long by a bigger, stronger man who will be constantly throwing to the body only to slow him down further? I don't see it. If LaMotta were the type of fighter to play Margo's game and keep the fight at a distance for periods of the fight I could see it, but he wasn't. Margarito would be forced to play a game he's no good at, or get into an all out brawl. Either way he's not getting out of Jake's clutches, and he's not surviving an all out body assault from one of the masters at body punching for a full 15 rounds(or 12 IMO).

I'll have to ask how much you've seen of a prime Jake rather than the old Jake on Youtube you see getting handled by Robinson. Maybe not the most impressive fighter technically, but again, technique isn't everything as long as you have other qualities to make up for it. There are many, many fighters throughout history who don't appear as impressive at first glance as others, but were undeniably as effective if not moreso. You just have to look for certain things sometimes.

 

"even"... can you be a bigger snob or what?

 

I take it that means your earlier post in this thread was serious.

 

I was being facetious of course. It's your "even" that triggered my reaction, as if there would be a lower category of posters (the General Boxing Forum) and a superior one (in which you would belong to).

Anyway, not important...

 

It's not as if the fact that the General Forum is on a continuing downward slope is surprising to anyone, is it? There are plenty of good posters, but they're far outweighed by the bad and the nonsense that goes on here. In comparison to the Classic Forum it is in all honesty pretty ridiculous. I post in both, but at this stage I'm pretty much an ESB addict so I can't help myself.

 

True. I've had more insightful, intelligent and civilized discussions about boxing on escorts review boards than on this one.

Anyway, I was just kidding about the snob thing - couldn't resist.

 

Maybe I just didn't watch enough Lamotta, but I don't know what underrated head movement you're talking about. His defense is horrid from what I've seen and the head movement that I've seen him use would be very easy to predict and time punches against for any B level fighter like Margarito. Also, that crouching style you're talking about seems like a recipe for disaster against another pressure fighter. Margarito would have zero problems landing uppercuts nonstop on him and practically anything else he throws IMO.

However.. I really don't know. On paper, it seems like any granite chinned, high output swarming MW pressure fighter could beat a sloppy natural 147 pounder like Margarito who has big defensive issues himself and is at a big strength disadvantage (is it really that big though? Lamotta these days could be a 154 pounder if he wanted to, with the 1 day before weighins, no?). Lamotta might not give Margarito room to throw punches and end up overwhelming and outworking him over 12 rounds en route to a decision win. I think you've convinced me that Lamotta would beat Margarito and thinking about it again, I've changed my pick to Lamotta UD. But I think someone with a defensive style like Santos would beat him. What do you think about that matchup, Santos vs Lamotta?

To tell you the truth, maybe I need to watch more Lamotta. I've seen a few of his fights on ESPN, seen some of the Robinson fights, and downloaded some of his other fights a while ago. He's never impressed me at all (except for his unreal chin of course) and I think that any modern lower B level fighter with solid outside boxing skills would dominate him. What are some of the most impressive performances by him that you've seen against good opposition?