Stamina vs Stamina, Marciano vs Frazier

Yes, I use to count Marciano's punches and after he became Champion, he did threw more then he did before. I counted as many as a 100 punches in a round. Frazier also threw a lot of punches and he was one of the best body punchers ever. Nat Fleischer rated him as the #1 body puncher and #2 most aggressive boxer ever.

As far as Stamina goes, it's really hard to say because like "he grant" stated Rocky only went 15 rounds once and Joe only went twice.

Here's a write-up on both Rocky and Joe. Notice what the writer says about Aggressive Boxing.

Rocky Marciano: Although small at 5’ 10 ¼ and 185 pounds Marciano was a tremendous puncher. He was also a non-stop slugger who wore down his opposition through attrition. A classic swarming style heavyweight who never stopped coming and never stopped punching until his opponents wilted. He was greatly conditioned and often set a relentless pace. Marciano’s tough chin and powerful right hand keep him a threat against most opponents. The only heavyweight champion to retire unbeaten and not come back. 49-0 is his legacy. Why he isn't higher: He never faced a 1st tier heavyweight puncher who weighed over 200 pounds. The two best punchers he faced in his career, Walcott and Moore- aged 38 and 42 at the time-had Rocky on the canvas. Joe Louis is not included since when he met Rocky, the Brown Bomber had long since lost his once devastating punch.

Joe Frazier: Frazier was a pressuring, swarming heavyweight who gave 3 minutes of work every round. “Smokin’ Joe” was one of the most aggressive pressure fighters of all time. His left hook was among the best in heavyweight history. Frazier was a willing fighter who knew how to get inside and go to work. He cut the ring as well as any fighter in history. His body punching was unrelenting. He had a heart that would not quit, although the quality of his chin has been questioned against the biggest punchers. His only losses are to Muhammad Ali and George Foreman.

 

I did a punch stat count on FOTC, Frazier's peak, and he averaged about 40 punches a round there. They were almost exclusively powershots, though.

I'd say Marciano has the better stamina. Frazier was dead-tired in the later rounds of FOTC and while he certainly still had enough zip on his punches, he couldn't be relentless enough to finish Ali, or pin him on the ropes and constantly throw punches, the way Rocky did in the late rounds against Charles.

Frazier was up against a bigger foe, though. That takes something out of you.


And then there's another, namely that Marciano had full two fisted power. So he could spread the wear and tear out, while Frazier basically had a bottleneck to his destructive output on how arm-weary the left was.

 

For PURE stamina...NOBODY tops The Rock...

 

In anything ...

 

Good post. I'm also under the belief that Rocky throws each punch with more consistent muster than Frazier does or did in FOTC. Granted, you are right that a lot were power punches but as you said he does begin to slow down a bit. Marciano was just bombing, bombing, bombing, and bombing. It's amazing his power and punch output ability from round 1 to 15.

 

Good post. I didn't count all of the rounds so I couldn't fully average it out. I only counted rounds 10-15.

 

I watched the 1st Marciano/Walcott 1 bout and I counted the punches that Rocky threw (not landed). This is what I came out with.

Round 1 - 28 punches
Round 2 – 34 punches
Round 3 - 35 punches
Round 4 - 40 punches
Round 5 was not filmed
Round 6 - 45 punches
Round 7 - 25 punches
Round 8 - 23 punches
Round 9 - 36 punches
Round 10 - 43 punches
Round 11 - 36 punches
Round 12 - 28 punches

Total – 11 Rounds – 373 Punches – Average 33.9 Punches Per Round

I didn't include Round #13, BUT Rocky threw 6 punches in that round, including the last two, a Great Right Cross, and a Left Hook.

I could be off some, but I tried to count every punch he threw, even the real short ones when they were Clinching.

Most punches thrown in a HW fight (and viewed by Compubox) :

1. Ibeabuchi vs Tua.......1730 thrown over 12 rounds
2. Ali vs Frazier III.......1591 thrown over 14 rounds
3. Tua vs Izon.......1571 thrown over 12 rounds
4. Rahman vs Toney.......1556 thrown over 12 rounds
5. Bowe vs Holyfield II.......1300 thrown over 12 rounds

 

Nice stats. This is what I was waiting to see.

 

He actually threw more punches later on when he defended his title, BUT Frazier use to threw a lot as well.

Just look at the 3rd Ali/Frazier bout when they were both on the way down:
Ali vs Frazier III.......1591 thrown over 14 rounds

That's an average of over 113 punches a round between the two.

 

And this in very hot conditions.

 

We seem to be moving towards the position that more punches were thrown in the thrilla in Manilla than in the FOTC.

If so then it could be argued that high punch outputs could simply mean less power shots in this context.

Just an idea to throw into the mix!!

 

Good point

 

I think we all seen the bout, and no one can say that they weren't throwing bombs at each other.

 

I'd expect those numbers when picking a bout between a crafty mover like Jersey Joe. Besides, the film shows Marciano not throwing tons of punches then and Goldman didn't slightly adapt his style at this point (Because he decided to after this fight).

 

I think I said that. In 1 round with Charles, he did throw 100 punches.

Both Rocky and Joe threw a lot of punches during their matches.