Standout contenders and fighters of the 1940's heavyweight scene?

I will start with the heavyweights.

I don't need to tell you that they all had a big problem, called Joe Louis.

His dominance greatly blurred who was the best of the rest.

They had another big problem, called Adolf Hitler.

The war greatly distorted the heavyweight scene.

The standouts in chronological order were old Baer, Nova, Godoy, Conn, Bivins, Ray, Walcott and Charles.

 

Elmer Ray beat Walcott and Charles in their primes. I don’t need to say any more.

savold lost 41 times in his career. Woodcock lost only 4. Think about that


Savold beat Baksi, also got destroyed by him twice.

Lem Franklin was arguably washed up when Savold beat him, and it should be noted Franklin at the peak of his career knocked savold out in 2 rounds.

if you wanna out savold above woodcock I’m fine with that they are pretty evenly matched. I just think woodcock suffered far less losses than savold

 

A report on the first fight from The Miami News gave Ray at least a draw, the gloves were 14oz.


I think Louis is the greatest of all time. Don’t have to convince me Louis would beat him handily.

Louis-Ray probably should have happened in 46-47 when Ray was at his peak and Louis was slipping. Ray earned it. Problem is Ray was not a super big draw and Louis wanted Ray to prove himself in exhibition vs him. After that, Ray lost rematches to Charles and walcott and his chance was over.

kind of unfair for Louis to make Ray prove himself in exhibition rather than grant him a title shot (16 month delay) between mauriello and walcott title defense. But ultimately Louis seemed to have Rays number stylistically. That said real fights are different and Ray is extremely dangerous as a top contender

 

That’s fine but complete bogus that Thompson was getting his ass kicked and allowed to foul Ray to the point where the fight because a NC rather than DQ win for Ray

 

Might I suggest you add Lee Q Murray? He was the interim heavyweight champion of the world recognized by Ohio and Maryland commissions and gave a peak Jimmy Bivins 3 evenly matched battles.

also Lem Franklin went 19-0 with 17 knockouts 1949-1941 and destroyed 3 of Louis title challengers. I have scribes from era which rate Franklin as the hardest hitter in the world including Louis. Franklin fell off a cliff but his peak was mighty impressive and gets him in there

you overrate nova because he beat an ancient Baer. he proved himself no standout.

baer max was finished by 1940. Doesn’t rate

godoy lost 5 times to Roscoe Toles, make that what you will

 

Some more interesting stuff thank you surf brat whose a pittsburgh boxing writer

Ray Arcel reported that Lee Q. Murraydropped Louis in a sparring session.Shortly afterward, Murray was canned as Louis's sparring partner. Murray also dropped Two Ton Galento in sparring. Once again, Murray was dismissed. Murray was an excellent fighter, a switch-hitter. He was tall, rangy and carried a deadly right hand. - thanks surf brat

"Lee Q Murray is the biggest hitter in the heavyweight division besides Joe Louis." - Ray Arcel 1945





The guy who Louis was getting criticized in the media and among boxing people for not fighting was Lem Franklin. A look at the papers of the era shows that there was, for a time, a huge push for a Louis-Franklin fight. After taking many months of criticism and pressure Louis' people finally relented and agreed to fight Franklin in September 1942 provided he got by Bob Pastor. He failed to do so.


Harry Bobo
Known as “The Peabody Paralyzer”, the 6’4, 210 pound Bobo was one of several leading black heavyweight contenders during the 1940s that never got a crack at champion Joe Louis. He was wildly popular in Pittsburgh among sports fans, beginning when he was a standout athlete at local Peabody High School. As an All-City tackle, his exploits in football (and also track and field) began regularly making it into the local newspapers. Several colleges attempted to recruit him but he instead opted for a fistic career, winning a heavyweight title during a brief run in the amateur ranks.


When he turned professional Bobo signed on with manager Eddie Kapphan, who also had Curtis “Hatchetman” Sheppard in his stable. From his pro debut on, his career was closelyfollowed by local sportswriters and it wasn’t long before he was makingheadlines. Strong and hard-hitting,Bobo beat many top heavyweights, including Gus Dorazio, Lee Savold, Gunnar Barlund and Buddy Walker. The bout with Lem Franklin pitted two of the division’s most powerful punchers in a wildly entertaining (albeit brief) fight that saw Bobo having to pick himself up off the canvas to score an impressive first round KO. Other top fighters Bobo faced include Melio Bettina, Tony Shucco and Lee Q. Murray.


Bobo was regarded highly enough to be considered “duration champion” by Ohio and Maryland while Joe Louis- the real heavyweight champion- was in the army. But an eye injury suffered in a bout with Gus Dorazio cost him his license to fight in Pennsylvania. He continued to fight out of state but with mixed results, eventually retiring in 1944. He stayed close to the fight game in later years, helping futureheavyweight contender Bob Baker to get started in the amateurs andoccasionally refereeing fights. He worked as a Sunday school teacher and was deeply religious throughout his life.


Bobo was working as a bartender in Philadelphia when he died suddenly on July 1966, at age 46.

 

1943-12-01 : Lee Q. Murray 202 lbs lost to Jimmy Bivins 187¼ lbs by UD in round 10 of 10
Location: Arena, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
"Jimmy Bivins, Cleveland, ranked by the NBA as the country's top active heavyweight, was awarded a thunderously booed 10 round decision over Lee Q. Murray of South Norwalk, Conn., at the Arena Wednesday night. The decision of Referee Jackie Davis and Judges Jim Parker and Herb Williams was unanimous, but the record crowd of 14,500 greeted the decision with almost solid disapproval and continued booing for more than 10 minutes after the decision was announced. Bivins' face was a mass of blod at the finish and referee Jackie Davis' shirt was drenched in gore from a deep cut which Murray opened above Bivins' left eye in the 6th stanza." -Associated Press

Unofficial AP scorecard - 6-3-1 Murray

1946-06-10 : Jimmy Bivins 190 lbs lost to Lee Q. Murray 203 lbs by UD in round 10 of 10
Location: Arena, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
"Lee Q. Murray, South Norwalk, Conn., ran his comeback victory string to 12 last night by winning an unanimous 10 round decision over Cleveland's Jimmy Bivins. Murray, 6'4", made good use of his height, weight and reach and had little trouble hitting Bivins, who was a slow moving target compared with his early days. Bivins tried to make it a close-in s****, but for the most part, Murray held him off with a long left while piling rights to the Cleveland lad's face and mid-section. There was nothing resembling a knockdown, but both fighters were shaken several times. Bivins bled at the nose and mouth for the last six rounds." -Associated Press
Scorecards (all for Murray)
Referee Jackie Davis - 6-4
Judge Charley Bill - 6-3-1
Judge Herb Williams - 5-3-2

Unofficial AP scorecard - 7-3 Murray
Attendance - 7,738
Gate - $25,448.00

 

Your argument seems to be that the California rules were bad. Okay, but they were the rules the referee had to go by, which is all I'm saying. Ramage did not have the option of giving a DQ win to Ray. That is if box rec is correct about the rules in California.

 

Thanks for the answer.

"Elmer Ray"--I have no problem with your high rating of him. As you point out, with wins over both Walcott and Charles he definitely is the outstanding forties contender.

"Woodcock lost only 4." "I just think Woodcock suffered far less losses"

And he had a mile less impressive wins, and Savold got the best of him head to head. Savold lost consistently to the top men, but he was up there a lot longer and beat a whole bunch of better men than Woodcock.

"Lem Franklin"

I have no problem with rating Franklin better than Savold. Very different careers. Franklin was a shooting star, looking great for a short time and then falling completely apart. Savold was up there for well over a decade, never outstanding, but fighting the best and beating a lot of pretty good men, if never the top men. But Savold knocking out Franklin twice trumps anything Woodcock did.

 

savold beat a washed up Franklin who would lose 6 of his last 7 fights.

Woodcock knocked out world champions Lesnevich and Mills. Lesnevich had success in heavyweight division. Woodcock also knocked out Lee Oma. I don’t think he’s far off at all, and again he lost 37 times less than savold!

 

Okay. Just on Savold, I ran through the NBA & The Ring rankings to see how many names Savold beat who were listed. I came up with:

Ford Smith, Bob Nestell, Buddy Knox, Gus Dorazio, Tony Musto, Maurice Strickland, Eddie Blunt, Arne Andersson, Eddie Simms, Tom Kennealy, Buddy Walker, Lem Franklin, Lou Nova, Bill Poland, Lou Brooks, Joe Baksi, Bruce Woodcock, Kid Rivera, Johnny Flynn, Bob Garner, Solly Krieger, Nate Bolden, Erv Sarlin (That is 23. Savold KO'd 17 of them)

A similar fighter to Savold was Bob Satterfield. Erratic as all get out, but here are the guys I can find in the NBA or Ring ratings he defeated:

Lee Oma, Boardwalk Billy Smith, Chuck Hunter, Bob Amos, Nick Barone, Tommy Gomez, Bob Baker, Harold Johnson, Ray Augustus, Nino Valdes, Paul Andrews, Marty Marshall, John Holman, Frankie Daniels, Julio Mederos, Johnny Summerlin, Cleveland Williams, Sylvester Perkins, Bob Garner. (that is 19. Satterfield KO'd 13)

Savold lost 41 out of 143 fights, a losing percentage of about 29%. He KO'd 72 men in 143 fights for a percentage of slightly over 50%. Satterfield lost 25 out of 79 fights for a losing percentage of about 32%. He KO'd 35 men in 79 fights for a percentage of slightly over 44%.

Despite the slight statistical advantage for Savold, I consider Satterfield the better fighter as his victims were on the whole higher rated men.

My point is that I would rate both these men as better than Woodcock. Bruce did beat a couple of light-heavy champions, but the only one Savold fought, Billy Conn, was way better than the two Woodcock defeated. Satterfield managed one victory over Johnson in three tries. He lost to Maxim, but Maxim also defeated both Lesnevich and Mills. And Satterfield lost to Archie Moore, but no way I think Woodcock beats Moore.

 

Nice work, all in though, a lot of pretty darn good great & noted fighters.

 

Oma took a dive in the Woodcock fight.

 

I don't think much of Woodcock, there was a lot of talk about the Savold fight. he won .As far as I'm concerned he only beat one world class heavyweight, Lesnevich who was better as a lhvy. As Klompton has said Woodcock's ranking by the Ring had more to do with Fleischer wanting to promote readership in the UK than Woodcock's actual ability.Bruce was exposed when he went up in class.