Stanley Ketchel knocking Jack johnson down ??

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Aug 2, 2008.


  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,578
    Nov 24, 2005
    Watched this piece of footage numerous times, and frame-by-frame.

    How come Johnson is already falling long before Ketchel's punch connects ?
    It's clear as day on film, Johnson seems to see the punch coming and is ducking and falling when the telegraphed overhand punch is still not even passing past Ketchel's own chest. Then, as clear as can be made out, the "impact" at most seems to be a grazing of Johnson on his way down.
    Johnson's falling starts when the punch is miles away, and the direction of his fall changes none when the punch allegedly knocks him over. It doesn't look much different to me than the infamous Bruce Seldon dive against Tyson.

    Hey, maybe some of you see this different, but I dont see how. I hate to say it was fake, but it sure looks it, there's far too much daylight between Ketchel's fist and Johnson when Johnson starts to fall.
     
  2. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
    If he was trying to fake something why would he get up and break most of Ketchel's teeth out of his mouth?
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,578
    Nov 24, 2005
    To make the end more dramatic, or to lure Ketchel in. I dont know.

    I'd be the first to say it's pointless to argue about his motives. We cannot even know.

    I'm just saying what I see on film, CLEAR AS DAY.
    Hey, it might even be a slip. It looks fake, but it could be a genuine slip. All I know is that Johnson is falling while the punch is still at the start of a long journey toward him. That's what I see. And the camera angle is perfect, there's just tons of daylight between Ketchel's fist and Johnson at the time Johnson is heading toward the canvas.
     
  4. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
    Well, supposedly Langford carried Ketchel in their short fight for a potential bigger payday down the road, yes?

    There was enough bull**** prior to the fight between Johnson and Ketchel to make the fight more "even" in the public eyes, so I wouldn't doubt Johnson, a very money oriented man, doing something like going down against Ketchel.
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,560
    46,153
    Feb 11, 2005
    I've seen similar kd's. Looks like Johnson is ducking and SK puts him off balance. Jack was probably royally po'd and decked him next punch. It was not a concussive KD but rather a balance issue, me thinks.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,727
    29,077
    Jun 2, 2006
    Gun boat Smith who was Johnson's sparring partner for the Ketchel fight ,said that the knockdown was faked,Ive watched the fight hundreds of times and it does indeed look like Jack is falling before the punch lands,its a question we will never be able to answer for certain.Its clear to me that Johnson was carrying Ketchel during the fight,when he catches him with hard shots he grabs him and puts him back on his feet,moving him around like a doll.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,579
    27,227
    Feb 15, 2006
    It was a blow to the ear that caused the knockdown.

    Not a lot of people know this, but ears are actualy used a lot in ballance!!!

    Even a light blow to the ear can disorientate a man and knock him down.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,727
    29,077
    Jun 2, 2006
    Actually the blow landed on the left temple,so Jack told me.Rather like the punch that dropped Holmes in the Tyson fight ,the question is after watching the fight to you have the impression Jack might have been on his way down before it landed?
     
  9. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,667
    2,153
    Aug 26, 2004
    Ketchel could hit, no doubt, but he woke a sleeping giant
     
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,560
    46,153
    Feb 11, 2005
    I tend to think that Ketchell is more over-rated than even Johnson, which is some feat.
     
  11. markedwardscott

    markedwardscott Active Member Full Member

    1,165
    4
    Apr 6, 2007
    In Johnson's autobiography he said he intentionally went down to make the movie sales better.