Good war until about the 6th when Ketchel starts landing heavily then proceeds to knock him cold. Ketchel is a crude fighter who could be easily outpointed by good boxers, Vargas is a brawler so Ketchel will have his way with him.
WHen Vargas chose to he was a good boxer,even had good legs,and underrated hand speed... More than a few opponents aknowledged that he was much quicker than they thought.. See his convincing decision over Quartey,and his domination over prime Yori Boy,Raul Marquez,Javier Castellejo... Yes i know the last 3 werent no pfp guys, but they were still top Jms and Champions in their prime and Vargas dominated. This is even how he got back in the fight with Tito, if he would have boxed from the beginning. I am of the opinion that he would have beat Trinidad. He had a long solid amatuer background and was really a well schooled fighter when he chose to fight that way.. Its just in his high profile fights with Tito,ODLH he tried to play machismo Azteca warrior and go for the ko.. Vargas gets much admiration and respect for his heart and fight till death reputation.. But that was also his downfall, at least against Tito,.. Dont think he would have beat Oscar no matter what (experience). .... If he was just a pure slugger he never would have beat Winky...Guys like that Winky domminates, his warrior attitude won some late rounds, but that alone doesnt beat Winky... Yes i know the decision was controversial (i had it a draw) but regardless it was razor close.,. Weve seen what Winky does with sluggers, even dominant ones. As for this comparison well i dont like comparing turn of the century guys... Because it takes away from both fighters... Ketchel has the greater legacy and considered an all time great... For his time he was definitely the greater fighter than Vargas. But comeon that stone age style would get him hurt against Vargas.. Im not gonna sit here with a straight face and tell you such BS... I do believe that Ketchel could git like a MOF in any era,but his style would get him beat down within 4 or 5 rounds... Unless Vargas gets cocky and gets caught.
vargas was not some advanced fighter. he was a pretty crude boxer puncher with basic skills. even if you do advocate a giant leap in skills between then and now vargas is no competition for a guy with the natural talent and skill of a guy like ketchel slew a deep middleweight division. Ketchel would eat Vargas up, roids and all, and spit him out for breakfast. Gigantic gulf in class.
You dont agree with the points i made? I agree sometimes he fought with all heart and no brains..But he did show solid boxing skills.. Trained by RObert Garcia SR who knows his stuff and instilled solid skills,in his sons RObert(excellent boxer but shaky chin) and Mikey and Fernando. And i disagree with you. On natural skills being enough.. THis is the sweet science not UFC, witht that wild crazy style natural talent isnt enough, Would be intresting to watch film of Ketchel and Vargas with you and hear you explain Ketchel superior skills.. Only think Ketchel probably had on Vargas was Punch,Stamina but that wouldnt matter here.... Besides you act like Vargas didnt have talent? The youngest ever national golden gloves champ,youngest JM champ. dont get there on no talent and raw boxing skills. Im not comparing Nando in gratness to Evandr..But i see similarites in that both were well schooled and had good boxing skills when the y wanted..But both seemed to prefer fighting aggressive and actually liked to mix it up.
Vargas was not a smart fighter..in his biggest fights he got destroyed by De La Hoya, Trinidad, Mosely, and even Mayorga...so despite however crude Ketchel may have been, Vargas would have found a way to offer his chin as a ritual sacrifice to him as well. Ketchell ko 8 Vargas.
I agree Vargas was not a smart fighter in his biggest fights... I think he was trying to do too much and that led to him losing bad... I couldnt believe the way he came out against Tito in the first round,,, i mean he was just begging to get chin checked.. He got back in the fight because he started giving Tito angles and using his head, i think Vargas could have won that fight had he fought a smarter fight from the begining...Even a paat it Vargas could have outboxed mayorga but again ,his machismo got in the way... I do think he came with a good plan against ODLH though,, i just think ODLH had to much experience and turned it on at the right time. I think both you guys should watch some of Vargas fights when he was defending his title.. He boxed well vs Yori Boy,Quartey and in spots vs Winky.. BUt i agree he didnt always use his head in his later fights.
Let me guess, you are Mexican and a Vargas fan? Get serious, Ketchel would own that ass, and he would own Tito's ass and he would have his way with Golden Girl. How would Vargas beat Ketchel, you haven't said it but you are implying that Fernando is going to sit back and box for 12 rounds. You do know who Stanley Ketchel is right? If Fernando was ruined by Tito, then Ketchel would have almost retired him. Sure, if Vargas boxed he might have preserved himself for a future, but that guy doesn't have that mentality. I like him, but he and his corner were really stupid against Tito. As I said, an animal like Ketchel would devour Vargas.
WTF doies being Mexican have to do with it? Obviously i feel the same way about any other world class fighters today. No matter where hes from. I said in the first post that Ketchel is far greater than Vargas for his era... And also stated i dont like to compare turn of the century greats with todays because its unfair to both... But get serious people cant see how anyone can watch footage of those guys and tell me with a straight face that they would outclass todays eliteatsch I can understand ranking them higher on an atg list, but your lying to yourself by saying they clean up today with that style. You ask if i know who Stanley Ketchel is?? You obviously have got me ****ed up with one of the guys on the forum... You better ask some body Grinder.:bart I know about all the great guys from that era and have known about them for quite some time. And im not one to believe that Tito ruined Vargas...I think ODLH ruined him... If yes in Legacy Ketchel would have kod Vargas.... But put him in time machine and put him in the ring with vargas with that same technique and he gets killed.
First of all,anyone who thinks Vargas was crude or just a brawler has clearly seen little of him at his best.Vargas was always,first and foremost,a boxer.He was an economical fighter,had a wide variety of punches,used angles,could counter effectively and had excellent footwork and balance.And yes,a very intelligent and patient fighter.Had he not been,he would have been taken out far sooner and not pushed Trinidad as close as he did. These myths concerning Vargas and his style are the result of his career post-Trinidad.That particular fight and a later back injury slowed Vargas down a tremendous deal and limited him to a far more stationary and immobile boxer.He had the odd defensive lapse and wasn't always consistent in that area,but he was a well-schooled fighter that showed maturity beyond his years. I'll leave the old timers and the younger users who aspire to be as blind and biased as them to predict such silly,ridiculous match-ups.
Excellent and spot on post...At least someone here watched some of Vargas fights ,before he loss to Tito.. Also crude brawler types rarely have decorated amatuer careers,and Make the olympic team as a teen ,, .. He was well schooled by his 1st pro fight and use to have impressive hand speed.. Also rose to world class status even before Mayweather did.. .... Robert Garcia didn always make the smartest managerial moves for his fighers.. But the old man knows how to train good boxers.. Vargas and his sons all well schooled.
