Stanley Ketchel v.s. Cleveland Williams

Now while I wouldn't care to pick Stanley Ketchel over Big Cat Williams I would pick him over Tye Fields in a heartbeat.

 

Yeah, it's funny I remember in the 80s and 90s Bruno was somewhat underrated by Ring magazine and American boxing people in general (who laughed at the mere mention of "British" and "Heavyweight" in the same sentence), and after the loss to Witherspoon I felt he was too harshly criticized by our own press here in the UK.
They were however on point in recognizing him as a manufactured fighter and a ridiculously protected one.
It was never in doubt. Even Bruno's own handlers acknowledge he wasn't a natural fighter, and Bruno himself expressed his own limitations.

Somehow, (and i dont know how or why !), we seem to be experiencing some Bruno revisionism and it's coming more often from Americans than Brits I feel.
Bruno just wasn't that good. Hell, look at how many times he needed to get his big title shots (mostly undeserved), and look at the quality of the "champion" he needed to be in with to finally win a trinket. With all that backing and all that dedication, and all that careful matchmaking and all that fiddling of the ratings.
He wasn't the worst of the many heavyweight alphabet champions, but he's in the bottom quarter.

 

I see your point, but Bruno is capable of producing good performances and surprise results. He was totally out classed by Tyson (who was in the Rocky mould), but Tyson was quicker than Marciano and did arguably hit harder. Rocky hit hard, but he took, much more time to wear down opponents. More like a Lennox Lewis concussive style of punch but with a much higher workrate.

Bruno was a very devastating puncher himself. NOt too far from the best of them. You would expect with his reach, he would land the heavy straight right on Marciano quite a bit (like he did once or twiceon Tyson). If Bruno lands early and regularly he will be hard to beat and he has every chance.

Saying that, Marciano's late stamina and Brunos tendency to fold late in fights are a recipe for a marciano KO. Still, KOs dont happen as often as we expect and shouldnt be relied. Bruno coudl easily survive and win a decision. Landing big and ko ing marciano is unlikely but not totally beyond the realms of possibility.

In a 10 fight series, i would expect marciano to dominate but definitely think Bruno would win at least 1.

 

H.E Grant,

You need to look into Physics. 160lb compared to 210lb is alot more of a disadvantage ithan 185lb to 235lb, despite both being a 50lb difference. Why? The lighter you are, the harder it is to give up pounds. It's body Chemistry. That is part of the reason why fighters 122lb cannot give up 10lb to fight lightweights...they would get killed. That 10lb is HUGE when you weigh only 122lb. I strongly feel that once you hit over 180lb to fight men above 200lb, weight advantage becomes less of a factor. Once you get to 200lb, it becomes only a minor factor. Some of this is my opinion, some of this is me speaking facts.


Also, When we take these 185lb legends like Marciano and Dempsey and compare them against Brunos and Ruddocks....you have to take into consideration modern training and enhancement. If Toney, Spinks, Holyfield were all able to bulk there way up...Then so can Dempsey and Marciano. Dempsey and Marciano have the right to the same Supplements, nutrition, weight training programs Bruno had access too. That way you will see bigger stronger rock solid 200lb Marciano and Dempsey in the ring against these big guys. Can Bruno and Ruddock defeat 200lb version of Dempsey and Marciano? Not a chance.

 

This is ridiculous.

grant, if thats what you think of Williams, I just simply don't think you know enough about him. His legacy was much more than that. He was great puncher. Very powerful.

Even when he was old and worn out fighting Ali, he hit Ali 3 times that fight. Ali kept stressing how hard those shots hurt though.

Ketchel = Murderous savage, dangerous for any opponent at middleweight.

But against Williams, lol.

 

Ketchel was a great middleweight,Cleveland was a big powerful hitter.i think the reason they have weight classes is,so guys like the Michigan Assasin don't have to fight guys like the Big Cat.Both were trajic figures in boxing,both were shot,though Williams survived his shooting,he was killed later on in his life.I would expect Williams to ko Ketchell.

 

I think Ketchel has a better chance of beating chinny Big Cat than Marciano does of beating Bruno. Still, that chance ain't much

Call me silly.

Cleveland Williams stands as one of the most over-rated entities in the history of boxing. It was goddamn near a rite of passage to KO the lug in the 60's onward.

 

Bruno has the stamina of a 80 year old granny. By the 10th round he won't even be able to standup off his stool against Marciano. Look at his meltdowns against bonecrusher and fat tim witherspoon...imagine if he gets a tougher better conditioned heavyweight in with him than those guys. Marciano would make bruno mentally break big time. Also, I highly doubt one of brunos thunder blows are going to land flush on marciano in his crouch...especially given it was sharp pinpoint punches which tended to give rock the most problems...bruno doesn't have that.

 

Cleveland Williams 31-1 fought a 176lb Bob Satterfield and was KO'd in 3...but I think Ketchel was a thin Middleweight who would give it his all but was a natural 160lber and did not have the frame to move up.

Marciano was one of the hardest hitting men in the heavyweight division and the hardest hitting 2 fisted,late power of all time. People try so hard to undermine him,even Eddie Murphy...Ketchel was a great middle, Marciano a great Heavy...in today's times he would be wider and more muscled because of the weight lifting and supplements but he would find a way too win he had it inside him....even without the steroids Bruno and the rest took

 

Bruno didn't oft have the privilege of pounding a cruiser. He was mostly relegated to giant, true heavyweights.

If Jersey Joe or Archie could stun the Rock, Bruno could put him in orbit.

 

He fought his fair share of men who would have probably made bantamweight had they been in shape.

Bruno fought some awful tomato cans, almost as bad as the ones Herbie Hide fought.

 

This is silly.Williams was kod by Satterfield when he came in as as substitute.Satterfield ,for all his faults was a big puncher.
Williams was twice kod by Liston in two rockem sockem fights,in 59 and 60.He was stopped by Ali when he was past it,and 34 years old, by Mac Foster a big puncher, twice when 36 years old and Foster was 19-0-0 and 20-0-0, all by ko,Stopped by Al Jones another good puncher,again when he was 36.Stopped by Al Lewis another good puncher, when he was 37.
Williams was short of his prime when Satterfield kod him ,only one man stopped him in his prime, Liston.

 

LOL true