Ketchel has been called everything from a Top 5 MW to a crude rudimentary brawler. Where do you place him?
Hi Buddy. I am in full agreement, if ever a old time fighter was lionised way beyond his capabilities, Ketchell is that man, from what we have seen he appears crude, unorthodox, and lacking in any rudimentals of the fighting art, this from a fan who had 3 pictures of him blown up and framed, and hung on the bedroom of my mum and dads small flat ( I know, I know ) so yes I rate him very low indeed, up there with, Greb, Monzon, SRR. and Hagler, never ! stay safe Woller1, chat soon. Mike.
Top 20 in deference to his historic importance. He is garbage on film. And lucky for him, the color line was a largely an understood construct. On the two notable times he crossed (and kudos to him) he got a rude awakening.
I think top 20 is fair. I would spend more time ranking him around the fighters just before & after him. As there was many great's right around him instead of such a long view approach. I don't see anything that he did that should elevate him ahead of Tommy Ryan. Could he beat beat Ryan? Sure. But Ryan certainly might have been able to give him a boxing clinic too. As Ketchel was crude and undeveloped on defense.
Hes the most impactful fighter in boxing history because his death created the situation that led to alphabet bodies. In Ketchels time boxers and promoters were mostly allowed to self regulate the title like they were in their sister sport chess. The MW anarchy following Ketchels death made it clear this could not continue. Look at what Ketchel accomplished by the age he died. Straight up menace. People need to understand tape degredation. Like watch footage from when you are younger and you'll be like "I don't remember it looking that bad". Yeah its been almost 120 years I don't know what you were expecting.
Boxing Film should be like 10% of an elevation on pioneers. We got newspaper accounts of every fight in history at our fingertips in 2026. Looking through box rec or watching a 5 min film clip is just about the worse way to elevate old fighter's both are lazy approaches. With Ketchel I'm really not sure which way he was trending when he died he was young but seemed on a steep decline. He was about to see a major step up in talent coming to the middleweight's. Just assuming he's better than the new talent coming is a major assumption. As they were a top grade of middleweights. Born 1886 Ketchel coming soon 1887 Mike Gibbons 1887 Frank Klaus 1887 Gunboat smith 1888 Leo Houck 1889 Eddie Mcgooty 1890 Jimmy Clabby Most of these guy's were scientific boxers, which would present a huge disadvantage for a crude Ketchel. He could knock out a few of them but i doubt he would saw right through these guy's. Ketchel was easy to hit, he would have great difficulty. Ranking him a top 5 you would assume he could walk right though these guy's....Me I don't believe it. Gibbons would of put a clinic on Ketchel's face. Ketchel would be like Wilder losing on all scorecards often hoping for a knockout blow. That's a tough way to survive and that's giving him the benefit of a doubt that he wasn't mentally & physically declining. As I stated not sure which way he was trending. He could of cleaned up his life style making an assumption isn't really fair to the man. But he really needed to work on his craft of boxing as technicians would of really presented a problem for him I suspect. Corbett talked about boxing skill on a steep decline with the fighter's after him. Ketchel was very much like Hart they could be effective but they all seemed poorly trained. Half of them didn't even know shifts with footwork that guy's like Tommy Ryan & mysterious billy smith employed. These guy's were master's at surviving knockdowns with shifts they didn't need to clinch like a meathead white hope. You don't need boxing film to know this.. It was a lost art already in 1905 the shift. He was young enough to develop some more. So it's anyone's guess as to how he would reacted to the new crop. But he needed advancement big time in my eyes. But he had some of the greatest set of tools to mold ever..he needed better training. Just my option. He could of got it...he could of improved. I would assume ranking him super high you're using potential somewhat. Because he wasn't a finished product. The Ketchel that beat papke isn't going undefeated against that new crop. No way. They were better more developed fighter's than a renegade Billy Papke.
Would've been Mike Donovan's jockstrap carrier had he been around back in the day. Well, further back in the day.
Do you mean Mike Donovan Jr right? He was a very spectacular middleweight. He's ranked very high by me. There's only one pic of him I've seen. This content is protected