Starling - Molinares: Was the right call made?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by sweet_scientist, Jun 16, 2009.


  1. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    For those of you that aren't aware of what happened in this bout, I'll give a quick summary:

    Marlon Starling was the WBA welterweight champ and Tomas Molinaes was the challenger. It was the 6th round and Starling had been boxing effectively up until that point when at the end of the round the bell sounded and a second later both fighters threw their final punch. Molinares' happened to be a haymaker and it knocked Starling out.

    Molinares was declared the new champion. Starling protested the result, but did not even know after the fight that he had been knocked out when Larry Merchant interviewed him.

    On reviewing the bout, the New Jersey Commision decided to rule it a no-contest becuase the punch landed after the bell, but the WBA allowed Tomas Molinares to keep the title because they said the final punch was in motion before the bell rang (even though it landed after the bell).

    Molinares subsequent to the fight suffered severe depression and gave up the WBA crown. He only fought a couple more times, being knocked out in each.

    Should the decision have been overturned into a no contest or should Molinares have been allowed to have the Ko win on his record?

    Did the WBA make the right call in allowing Molinares to keep the belt?

    Should Molinares have been disqualified for the late blow and should Starling have been declared the winner and kept the belt?


    Here's the footage of the end of the fight and the subsequent interview with Merchant:

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  2. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think Molinares should have been disqualified since he did not seem to do it intentionally nor should Starling have lost the bout since he was clearly struck after the bell. Calling it a no-contest was the right decision, in my opinion.
     
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I remember seeing that fight way back in 1988, and although it was a shitty outcome, I'm not exactly sure how it should have been handled frankly. Starling was winning that fight handely through 6 rounds, until he turned away in anticipation of the round ending, and Molinares launched a missile just as the bell sounded. Frankly, given that fighters have been disqualified for such things as hitting men while they were down, low blows, etc, then it might have seemed like a fair call.. Of course, I seem to remember Larry Merchant and Jim Lampley reniewing the replays and determining the punch was already in motion, so I don't know what to thing. In any case, its been over 21 years since I've seen that match, so I may have forgotten a few details...
     
  4. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Who should have kept the belt?
     
  5. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's a hard one ain't it....

    If you are being black letter, you'd have to either disqualify Molinares or at the least call it a no-contest and allow Starling to keep the belt. A punch after the bell is illegal and that's the bottom line.

    If you step outside the black letter interpretation though, both hadn't stopped fighting, both threw a punch simultaneously and Starling was ko'ed not because he let his guard down, nor because he was relaxing when the bell went (or so it appears ,though we don't know 100% for sure), but simply because he got caught. In that sense it appears Molinares Ko'ed him on merit, not by fluke, or because of the intervention of the bell, and so it's a shame to take the win off him...

    Very hard one for me...
     
  6. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Had Cortez made the right call, Starling would have kept the belt. Unfortunately Molinares had already been crowned the champ and taking the belt away from him would have proved to be difficult.

    In the end it did not really matter since Starling went onto win the welterweight title again Honeyghan while Molinares went nowhere.

    Kind of reminds me of the Humberto Soto-Francisco Lorenzo situation really (Cortez was involved there too), except they had a rematch afterwards for the belt unlike Starling and Molinares.
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Agreed,

    On another note, however I don't know if I have ever really used this fight as a mark against Starling. It seemed more of a fluke and one that was questionable in nature. Incidentally, since the fight was ruled as a no contest, Starling " technically " has the claim to never having been " legitimatley" Ko'd...
     
  8. Mantequilla

    Mantequilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Starling was sloppy and off-balance and got caught legitimately, it kind of reminds me of Graham leaving himself open against Jackson a bit.

    Just one of those things the exchange happened to take place instantaneously with the bell.Maybe you could say he subconsciously relaxed in that split second between going to throw that punch and hearing the bell, thus not reacting the way he may have done to Molinares' shot.

    I think Starling is the one who is damn lucky it happened when it did to be honest.He ****ed up.
     
  9. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    It would have been interesting to see how Molinares would have continued, had he been able to keep his head in the game. I always wondered why I hadn't heard anymore about him after that fight. At anyrate, I have my doubts about him going very far, given that he was somewhat limited and the welterweight division was extremely competitive in those days... A guy like Simon Brown or Mark Breland would have made short work of him if my guess is right.
     
  10. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    This is when the "instant replay" innovation would have been called for. I believe Starling heard the bell and relaxed, dropped his guard, and Molinares obviously didn't and landed the ko punch, illegal of course. I'm surprised that the two never met again. I'm sure that Starling would have gotten sweet revenge. To answer, no, I don't think the right call was made. Molinares either should have been disqualified or the fight called a "no contest".
     
  11. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    With the way Molinares could ****in' whack? That's up for speculation. Sparking Starling out like he did was extremely impressive, look at the guys Starling went the distance with over the course of his career.

    Breland was very chinny and Brown's wasn't undentable.
     
  12. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    One of the first things you learn as a fighter is defend yourself at all times. With hindsight (and probably at the time) the punch seemed a foul, but the referee decided otherwise.

    Outside of the fight, the commissions do in my opinion have every right to void a fight for a failed drug test etc, but in the ring, right or wrong the referee's decision should always be final.

    Molinares should have a WKO against his name in the Starling fight.
     
  13. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Fair enough, but Molinares was very unpolished, and took a lot of shots from starling early.. He was well behind on the cards, had virtually no defense, and a face that was really starting to swell up.. Starling was strong, but not much of a puncher.. With Brown and Breland's punching ability along with their technical skills, I think Molinares would have gotten in trouble early, or certainly taken too much of a beating before things really got rolling. Also, while Starling was more durable than most, keep in mind that he was caught with that shot while being more or less unprepared.. He was basically anticipating the end of the round. I don't know if we can accurately assess Molinares's power based on this one incident..
     
  14. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    he threw that punch just as the bell rang it was after the bell but what a punch it was perfect.

    Im not sure how well the sound dubbing is as the commentaters say he threw it a second after the bell

    Looking at Starling he looks like he has relaxed but actually goes to throw a punch. The punch didnt have much on it so he might have been hurt already or it might have been a push to push him away from him.

    A very tricky call.

    If i was the ref i would panic i wouldnt have a clue what to do. But thats boxing always unpredicatable. I think i would have given Starling time to recover then carry on the fight
     
  15. Sonny Carson

    Sonny Carson Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Molinares should have been disqualified on the spot and the belt should have stayed with Starling.