Statements You are So sick of Hearing ...

Yeah, here's my hot take.

Ali playing for the cameras and spewing such venom worked Frazier up into a drive and frenzy that I'm not sure another HW could've survived unless they got him outta there early.

Had Ali played it down and not almost betrayed Frazier's camaraderie when he was championing him in exile, I don't know if Frazier beats him.

One of the biggest things missed, beyond Ali being rusty or not rusty, despite Frazier being so driven that night is the pre fight dynamic of how Ali got Frazier so motivated.

I'm convinced that had Ali met Frazier in 68 or 69, he would've been victorious and Yank seemed to agree.

 

Well, Ali and Frazier reached the point where their reputations preceded them - and that also discredits Ali’s claim that it was purely for promotion - he arguably went even harder at Joe for the Thrilla….we all know what he called Frazier.

Even Pacheco jumped on the band wagon referring to Frazier as “dumb”. What a dickhead.

 

Oh I don’t even have a soul, I eat out of the trash can just by 7-11 get my sparring in when the mall cops try to chase me off. I won’t be intimidated.

 

Ok sweetie..

 

Exactly how Sonny Liston used to do it. So many guys now abandon the old ways … but not you!

A true classicist.

 

I think Ali wanted it that way. He would needle guys until they were seeing red. Imagine the size of balls it takes to goad Joe Frazier and George Foreman into wanting to kill you, knowing you’re going to be trapped in a ring with them.

Ali knew instinctively that if he ran his mouth like that he would (a) sell tickets, but also (b) assure he got his opponent at their best — which he wanted because it would make him train to be at his best.

I’m talking about his big challenge fights, not Richard Dunns and Alfredo Evangelistas.

 

Totally agree with you on Bert Sugar. I sat next to him at Roy Jones vs Bryant Brannon at MSG. He was a big blowhard.

 

I am very surprised you're defending Leonard here saying that 3 years of occasional sparring and gym work isn't enough to completely shake off ring rust, but you constantly rip into Ali's inactivity saying there's no excuse for how he performed in the FOTC.

 

That's a little harsh. That being said looking back on it his rise was heavily scripted. On the other hand he demolished Holmes, Spinks, and Berbick though we need to look hard at the context of each match.

 

The most pertinent context is that they shared the ring with a prime Mike Tyson.

 

To play devil's advocate so did Buster Douglas. That's why context is so important.

 

I believe "running his mouth" was his way of dealing with fear. Fear is a base emotion. It's how you react to it that defines you.

 

He didn’t. That’s why context is important.

 

Buster was +4200 if you could find a house to take the bet. It's considered to be one of the biggest upsets in the history of sports.The linesmakers certainly believed he was prime. I can provide a citation if you want. Of course they didn't have an entire generation, thirty five years to be precise, to set the odds. There's your "context".

 

I don’t think you understand how and why odds are generated.