Steele & Apostoli

I think Apostoli was better,

which is just guesswork, but I think one has to consider Apostoli doing better h2h even if they split two fights. Fighting a peak Steele in your 7th fight, having never gone past 6 rounds? Can't see holding that against Apostoli at all. As for the injury to Steele, who knows?

I think Steele might be overrated as his best performances against Dundee and Lesnevich are on film. The Apostoli film doesn't show the same dominant fighter.

 

I think so also. My take would be that the 1930's middles were on the whole a much better bunch with a lot more depth of good fighters than the 1940's middles. This makes sense considering the impact of WWII.

The only bit of your post I would question is Cerdan, as I think he is more a ? incomplete fighter, but certainly the 1930's best had deeper resumes and are more proven.

 

?

 

Marcel Thil was better than Cerdan in my opinion

 

Do you remember if the allegation of fixed fights with Pep was more extensive than is commonly believed?

 

means nothing between them

 

Steele for me. Freddie should be a top 10 lock in at Middleweight by any mans standards. Personally i think hes knocking on the door of 5. Did he suffer from burnt out? Possibly. Did his managers death affect him? Not so sure. Did the car crash affect him physically? i think so personally. Whatever the case or reasoning may be, 25yr old is so so young to retire (forget the Casino comeback)

 

The injury was suffered prior to the Apostoli fight (which postponed it from its original date) & then was reaggravated during the fight itself, & would continue to be reaggravated for what would remain of Steele's career.

Here's a newspaper clipping on the fight's postponement from the AP, as published in the Santa Ana Journal:

"The scheduled 12-round non-title fight between Freddie Steele, middleweight champion, and Fred Apostoli, San Francisco, Nov. 12 has been postponed indefinitely because of injuries to Steele. Steele appeared before the New York State Athletic Commission yesterday and was examined by Dr. George Edson, who reported he found definite evidence of injured cartillages on Steele’s sixth, seventh and eighth ribs. Dr. Edson recommended a three weeks’ rest for the champion."

Steele obviously had a big edge in experience heading into their 1st fight, but I don't think he was @his own peak yet either. From what footage we have of Steele, I think he continued to hone his boxing skills right up through winning the title. The Lesnevich fight from '36 (a year after Apostoli 1) was his peak performance IMO.

 

Nothing ahead of their time about them, OLD Footage & even the Quality & Operation of it, was at times insufficient, then there is ageing, ware and disintegration of it.

People were still, Walking, Running, Eating, Dancing, Singing and Screwing just the same back then as now, stop being so Modern Everything is better!

Modern Technology helps us see things in proper motion, sure, but but proper motion existed long before the Tech.

 

Good point. Even France in the 30s had a better middleweight than Cerdan in the '40s, that is Marcel Thil. He handled Gorilla Jones and Lou Brouillard with ease according to the surviving footage (which I acknowledge was probably edited in France). Thil looks very good against Apostoli up to the point their fight was stopped in the 10th round for a cut. He was ahead on the cards at the time of the stoppage. And that was Thil's last fight in a 15-year career with a total of 136 pro fights.

 

Hi Guys.
Have to say I have a soft spot for Apostoli, he was a handsome, two fisted box/fighter, who on his good day could roll with any MW in history, but that was the dilemma, not unlike Patterson he had insecurities and self doubt, he never knew how good he was, no less a trainer than Whitey Bimstein has said of him " he was a strange character, some days he simply couldn't or wouldn't fight, on his good days he could have taken on Louis, on his bad, anyone could have the beating of him, there have been times when he would, for no reason cry in the corner, even though he was in control of the fight " this from Conn " I was out of shape for our first fight, Apostoli was a bad man to be out of shape with, he busted me up real good, spent 2 days in hospital, and 3 at home in bed, I passed blood most of that time, he was the most hurtful body puncher I ever faced, and that includes Zale " the man himself " I loved fighting punchers, they seldom hurt me, I liked nothing better than to get up close, and bang to the body " so yes, I like The Fighting Bellhop.
stay safe guys.

 

Was it this book?

I remember reading a newspaper account of the Garcia fight that said Apostoli had to shed a pound or 2 @the weigh in. After losing the title, he jumped straight up to LHW & weighed around 170. Based on that, I would surmise that Apostoli was struggling to make 160 around that time & that may have contributed to the Garcia loss.