Steroids in the 60s ?

10% body fat is very lean. On a trained muscular individual they would look seriously defined.
I wouldn't go as far as to say Toney would have been 200 pounds at that level of body weight, but he was certainly holding plenty of muscle mass.

 

Yes, I've considered that. It's a valid argument.
I'm not sure Tyson has been "alarmingly honest" about most aspects of his life though. He graphically describes a lot of things that most people don't normally admit to or describe but it's virtually impossible to know how honest he's being. Since his peak 1988 coincided with the massive steroid scandal where Ben Johnson was branded a cheat, perhaps it was instilled in Tyson's mind that admitting to steroids was a legacy-killer. I don't know.
Maybe Tyson never took them.

The other thing about steroid use is the possibility that many athletes don't even know or care what they are taking. Especially in the 1970s and '80s, it was normal for coaches and doctors to give athletes shots and pills. It's actually an old school thing really, managers and trainers of top prospects and fighters would always be seeking medical advice, medical help, all sorts of drugs, an edge. They'd have special doctors who understood what boxers needed.

 

Tyson is a master manipulator and only let's stuff out that will add to the legend...

Admitting he was taking cocaine and weed is his way of saying "I was off my head on drugs and I still beat those fighters, just imagine what I would have been if I was clean."

I can read the man like a book, no way in hell would he ever admit steroid abuse.....

 

steroids were in the 60's, but real efficacy was a long way off.

i don't see much reason to accuse foreman, at any point in his career tbh.

 

this is dumb, forget this corinthian gibberish and accept that pro sports are exactly that.

 

It's a bit hard to rule out PEDs, I think.

 

5-10 per cent body fat is generally seen as the range for pro athletes, I think. Marathon runners can even be below 5. I was at 11 for a while (when still single ), and still had a bit of a belly.

 

I agree. Like most pro athletes, he also seems conscious about putting a spin on things to best guard their legacy.

 

Taking steroids is as much a cowardly act as loading your gloves would be. You don't agree that taking steroids is the mark of a mentally weak individual, secretly fearing he will be exposed as inadequate without them? SImple facts. Nothing about that is gibberish. Corinthian? Possibly.

 

Maybe training is cheating too.
Maybe sport itself, boxing especially, is based on your "mentally weak" individuals. Y'know, guys who feel they need to prove themselves by competing and fighting, fragile egos battling against feelings of inadequacy.
Perhaps all successful people are cowards and cheats, etc.

 

I doubt Tyson was on steroids. Even if he was, it would've made little difference. What made him great was his fighting psychology, ring smarts, technical ability, and athletic ability.


Tyson talking about steroids at :50

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It would have made signifikant differance for someone like him who relied a lot on his power and almost freakish speed and explosiveness.

 

Nope, sorry, that just won't wash. I've heard this argument before and it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Training oneself in any athletic pursuit is a worthwhile and noble pursuit. You push your body to do more than you thought it could - whether for aesthetics, general fitness or to compete against others. Whatever your own genetic potential or the limitations of your body or environment, that is the starting point and you take it where you can from there. Taking steroids is just a cheap way of kidding yourself. People who don't have the heart to train properly resort to steroids, but ultimately that just makes you a vain loser to my way of thinking.
Your argument is akin to saying that there is no difference to studying hard & well, having the discipline to get to class regularly, get enough sleep etc. versus.... breaking into school the night before the exam to photocopy the exam paper. Kidding yourself. Steroids are for losers who don't have the b###s to be winners. Proofs in the fact that most steroid users can never bring themselves to admit to it.

 

Fair points. Tyson is hardly the most reliable narrator of his own life. He often contradicts himself, but I give him the benefit of the doubt in never (to my knowledge, and I'm far from hanging on his every word) saying he did do it.

Whether he could have taken them without knowing? Quite possible, given the lack of control he seemed able to exercise over his own life.
My gut feeling remains that he was natural, though.

 

If it doesn't make a difference then why are most athletes on them and that includes boxers?