Steve Hamas vs Art Lasky

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by edward morbius, Aug 11, 2017.


  1. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I stumbled onto this very clear film of this 1934 fight on you tube. I am not computer sophisticated enough to bring it over, but thought it worth giving a heads up.

    Hopefully someone else will bring it over for viewing.

    The film is very good and very clear, and adjusted to proper speed.

    That these two were top contenders in the day certainly raises questions. They both look awful to me.

    The film is under

    Steve Hamas beats Art Lasky--This day in boxing, October 5, 1934
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    They fought differently then, and fought in a way to be effective in that day. They are fit and strong enough looking though.

    A funny moment right at the introductions in ring centre, the manager of Hamas reaches up and runs his hands through Laskys hair (which is clagged with too much oily 1930s hair pomade) and complains enough to makes the ref wipe it off before the fight starts. Whilst the ref is doing wiping the manager then wipes the greasy content from his hand onto the back of his pants.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Thanks!
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    E M is right!They both look awful! Left hands down below their waists,both begging for a right hand on the chin, slow and hesistant,and throwing arm punches.Antony Joshua is still relatively green but I would take him to crush both of these inside 4 rounds apiece.
     
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  5. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    This was a weak era for the division, hence the title changing hands so many times between Tunney and Louis. Hamas was essentially a college fighter, not a real seasoned fighter. Just a good athlete who took up boxing. Lasky was nothing special either. These guys rose to the level of contender during a pretty weak era IMO. Its remarkable Hamas beat Schmeling but then go watch Schmeling nearly kill him and you get a sense that it was a fluke.
     
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  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That's bad.
     
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  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Not sure how anyone watching Hamas can say he looks bad.

    His punching style was good.
    https://streamable.com/7zrm5

    Defensively he has some Archie Moore like tendencies:
    https://streamable.com/dzlln

    He uses the lazy head movement for luring in counter opportunities.
    He uses a nice shoulder roll that he counters off of.

    Steve Hamas defeated Lee Ramage twice, Tommy Loughran twice, and a 1934 Max Schmeling.
    If you think he looks awful, then we run into an awkward predicament where either you guys are wrong, or Max Schmeling around his prime got defeated by an awful "college fighter." Personally, its an easy decision for me.


    Lasky looks very awkward, but he could trade hard punches under pressure.
    https://streamable.com/ga6yf
    He doesn't look pretty, so if his style and tendencies don't jive, its understandable.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  8. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, Schmeling himself in his autobiography made no bones about what he thought of Hamas.

    "I fought the young American Steve Hamas in Philadelphia; as a college football hero he was extremely popular, but certainly not in the first rank of heavyweight boxers. Yet he decisively outpointed me and I fell into a deep depression." (p. 90)

    Later, Schmeling considers but rejects retirement, debating with himself--"you can't quit now, after losses like those. After all, you were the heavyweight champion of the world. This can't be the end of your career, defeated by a kid just starting out! I also told myself I hadn't been beaten by better boxers. In my normal form I would have beaten Baer and Hamas without much trouble." (p. 90)

    By early in the second fight--"I had my old reflexes, movement, and punching power back." (p. 100)

    "As early as the break after the fourth round I said to Max Machon, 'The kid has really had it! I don't want to hurt him!' Hamas hadn't gone down, but appeared to be finished and no longer able to defend himself." (p. 100)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    One thing I noticed on the Lasky film, besides the odd styles, was that Hamas seems very weary and sloppy over the second half of the fight. He looked to be gulping air. This might be what Schmeling is referring to about Hamas being finished and no longer able to defend himself.

    Schmeling himself clearly considered his loss to Hamas a fluke.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  9. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Good context to add, thank you.

    In the end, we can't chalk up every underdog victory to a fluke, without giving the winner their due credit.
    Schmeling doesn't give any excuse in particular, other than he should've done better.

    You can call every underdog victory a fluke if you're looking to not give the winner of the competition their credit.
     
  10. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You are right about that. A victory is a victory and Hamas decisively defeated Schmeling in their first fight. Schmeling himself concedes that. Who knows what to make of Max's "off" night rationalization.

    Clearly, though, Max didn't have that high an opinion of Hamas overall.

    My take is that Hamas, though, looks much better than Lasky. Lasky seems to think a feint is something which happens to old folks when it is very hot and they haven't gotten enough water, and a combination is something to open a safe with. He looks to me like he is telegraphing most of his punches. And defense? What's that?

    But I am interested in anyone who sees more quality in these guys.
     
  11. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    You can say it wasnt a fluke that Schmeling lost to Hamas but in the rematch Schmeling damn near killed Hamas, gave him a career ending beating and perminent brain damage he was so dominant. Ive got no reason to doubt it was a fluke. Its not taking credit for Hamas it is what is. Schmeling was just a better fighter in every department.
     
  12. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Schmeling was clearly a class or two above.
    It must've been a fluke of sorts, but one should also acknowledge what a fluke means in the context of beating a 1934 Schmeling.

    Many people might say that Louis loss to Schmeling was a fluke due to undertraining and hubris.
    But through Schmelings perspective, it was an arduous journey and a hell of a performance to snatch that victory.
     
  13. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hamas had a slight tear in his shoulder I believe in the rematch which cause his arm to drop ever so slightly against Max. And with Max's power and precision timing it was virtually almost manslaughter. Schmeling ended his career and caused him brain damage.
    I haven't watched the video yet as for Schmeling maybe he just had an off night. When he was on there is no way this kid hangs with him. Louis, Sharkey, Walker, Stribling, Max was a pretty bad guy.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'd say this settles any doubts!
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    O c'mon they are both bad slow and without technique or defence, shoulder roll/sausage roll! Archie Moore should rise up and strike you!
     
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