Straight Right/Overhand Right, Right Cross- the same?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by bman100, Jan 10, 2012.


  1. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Awesome. got loads of em.:D This thread made me realise how little i know about only the basic fundamentals of boxing. Another punch that I hear loads about is the left hook (or right if southpaw.) Dempsey said to throw it as tight as possible and with your elbow barely leaving your chest. Then you watch a guy like Pac and Tyson and they don't really have that tight shot really, they throw it out and it is quite wide. I know, they're not the best examples of technicians but you get the point....

    Then there is the issue of which way the palm faces when you throw it, does it face downwards or does it face you.


    That Moore article is great. The half hook-half uppercut he mentioned was also used by SRR. John Garfield said here once that SRR threw a "hooker-cut," (as he called it) because he thought he could get more leverage on it than it being closer to the body.
     
  2. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I just looked at the Moore article online, and it's missing some items that are in the hard copy, but he's good. Imaginative at times, but good.

    A tight, short hook is a vicious shot inside, if you understand how to maximize leverage. A sweeping hook from further back can be useful if you're fighting a guy who is hurt or slow--it will move his head into the range of your right -and the best right cross is shot out when his chin is in line with your right foot. Straight line, punching through the target -BANG.
     
  3. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    thanks. lotsa great tips here. what about which way your palm faces? Seen Freddie Roach say it should face the floor but then seen Sugar Ray Robinson throw hooks with his palm facing him, which is the correct way?
     
  4. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Go with whichever is more comfortable for you.

    I have a skinny wrist and for me, throwing it with the palm facing me is far more comfortable. I had a trainer who used to insist that I throw it the technically correct way with the palm facing the floor, but it felt as though any deviation would see me with a broken wrist, so I wouldn't throw it as hard. There are no psychological barriers for me the other way.
     
  5. Govmusili

    Govmusili New Member Full Member

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    perfect example of an overhand right is the one maidana landed on khan. Right???
     
  6. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    thanks. some people say "you have to do a hook EXACTLY this way otherwise its not correct" so thanks for clearing that up.

    I'm curious to know your stance on the leaping left hook. I like the way Hagler almost jumped into a guy with this hook and it was a very good/hard punch for him, ovbiously another famous case is the RJJ left hook lead.

    From a technical standpoint is it foolish to be so off balance unless you have RJJ type reflexes or is there a way to make it work for anyone?
     
  7. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    I'm a big fan of the Philadelphia Hopkins Reverse Southern Overhand Left Cross Piledriver, myself. Works every time.
     
  8. Vantage_West

    Vantage_West ヒップホップ·プロデューサー Full Member

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    hopkins doesnt drink...and if he did he wouldnt drink a cocktail. idiot:patsch
     
  9. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    Bernard Hopkins? The punch has nothing to do with him. It's named after the great Jimmy "Son of McMustache" Hopkins, the most artistic boxer to come out of Philly.
     
  10. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You must mean that shot Hagler threw at Mugabi that prompted Leonard to say "hmmmmmm... if he tries that on me...."

    I don't recommend that shot. If you have a slow guy hurt, feel free, but try that on a guy who knows what he's doing and you'd pay.
     
  11. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    thanks, see what you mean. off balance = not good.

    One issue that I see often and never had a straight answer (because there are different opinions on it) maybe you could shed some light on this topic:

    Defence. When a fighter slips punches, some guys like Dempsey (in his book) say you should bend at the waist, not the knees to avoid blows.

    "As he swings, merely bow forward from the hips. That is: you merely relax your back and stomach muscles and let the
    upper part of your body jackknife down and forward, without moving the feet. The knees bend only slightly more than normally."


    But as Tyson showed against Marvis Frazier, bend at the waist (bending foward or bowing) and you could get hurt by a uppercut. But, I've seen some fighters make it work for them.

    Others say that it is better to bend at the knees and move your body downward instaed of foward to slip punches. Anyway, some people say bend at the waist, some say at the knees, which would you say is the right way?
     
  12. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I've always trained my guys to move their head with the trajectory of the shot and then bend the knees and dip under the shot in a "u." Bending forward slightly is okay, but not so that you cannot see what's happening in front of you. The opponent's shot should skim their scalp and no more. Making the shot miss by a foot is inefficient. Then come up out of the "u" on the other side of the shot and step to either side to get an angle. That helps you to counter whatever hook that was evaded.

    That is the best way -it's efficient and it gets you in position to counter.

    However, Dempsey's way leaves less target. Dempsey's way seems vulnerable to uppercuts and perhaps wide hooks to the flanks, but if you do it right, it's hard to land even those.

    Dempsey's way has problems though -first of all, you're blind when you bend at the waist. Second of all, you have to be exceptionally agile to do it right. I think that there's a third factor -agile and very aggresive fighters can do it because bending at the waist is done with forward propulsion. The move will increase the force of overhands for example.

    Most fighters cannot execute it as well as Dempsey did. We spend too much time watching Dempsey the Hollywood dandy who fought Tunney and forget that in 1919, he was bad to the bone. Forget his power and even his speed -it was his agility that springs out at me.

    So, the answer is that most fighters should weave under hooks by bending slightly and at the knees. Only a few have the agility and the style to do what Dempsey preached, and do it well. Most will end up like Marvis.
     
  13. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Man, you should write a book. great answers, really helpful. love technical boxing.:happy

    what is your view on the technical side of the uppercut?

    Remember cus d mato said throw it like a "vertical hook", so you twist it out to the side and hook but vertically if that makes sense.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcgsRIekwO4[/ame]

    ive seen fighters throw it in front of them not at an angle. Do they have to be thrown up close only? How would you describe the mechanisms of throwing an uppercut to a begginner?
     
  14. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Demonstrating it in person is better, but here goes.

    The uppercut is best used in close. That variation is short and comes up from a crouch to maximize leverage and force. The crooked arm isn't moving so much but the body is. Your chin is low, left high, and you spring up from a crouch, land it, and go low. You can follow it up immediately by springing back up and doing it again from the left side. See, you do it on bounces. That rhythm gives it more force and balance.

    At the middle range, it should be a counter, at an angle. I'd be looking to see if the guy leans in when he jabs. If he does, may God bless him, because I'm gonna slip the jab (and sometimes bump it up with my left as I dip right) and then come up with a right uppercut kind of under the armpit, followed by a short left hook that is aimed through the guy's head.

    See, the right uppercut lifts the guy's head for that short left hook.

    Now, as you throw the left hook, you can use that momentum to swing your right foot to the front at the angle (a variation of Fitzsimmon's shift) and come back with a short right to the head, followed by another short left hook. Aim that one for the sternum.

    --Land those, and you're going home early.

    ........
    Uppercuts thrown straight ahead aren't nearly as forceful. Chavez used to do those chest to chest, but they were tactical only. He was trying to bounce that head up for a short hook.

    .......
    An uppercut from the outside is dumb and stupid. Ask Buster Douglas how he lost the title. I used to spar big guys, novices from the weight room upstairs who loved to throw looping hooks and uppercuts from way back. They should have chewed tree sap to strengthen up their mandibles, because maybe then they wouldn't have ended up wearing their jaw as a hat.
     
  15. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Stonehands, what would you say the best range is for a fight that you dont want to last very long and just get the KO?;)