his legacy is another one which is limited. Avoided tough guys like Floyd, and now Ward has retired too early. We cannot place guys on the ATG list with short careers, or not great fights.
Well l don't have him top 3 p4p that's for sure but l do rate him high and l don't punish him for this late career losses. Middle weight he wasn't there long enough to rank him too high in terms of wins but h2h he's probably top 5. SMW anywhere from 1 -3 h2h. And LHW l think 6th in terms of accomplishments and h2h perhaps 3-4. All told he's probably one of the top 3-4 fighters l'very seen in my life. Duran, Ali, SRL Jones, and l go back and forth between SRL and Jones on this list. Closest l can compare him to is probably a young Ali. When Jones was in his prime he was just at another level compared to his opponents. 4p4 all time would probably be in the 25-30 range. His main weakness was his comp and he never had that one opponent who brought out the very best in him. Ie Ali-Frazier, Pac-JMM, SRL-Duran etc.
Well, Jones is one of those fighters who look amazing when you watch them fight, then you look at his career and you are in awe. Then you look deeper and it becomes clear that not everything that looks shiny is gold. He certainly is an atg. Him fighting his way from mw to beating a hw beltholder is an astounding achievement and a throwback to the olden days. However, I think there are many holes in his resume and accomplishments compared to the greats either p4p or at the weight classes he competed at for him to be ranked amongst the greatest at any. Guess he is one of the fighters where people always to argue where to rank him. I'm content with calling him an atg and enjoying watching his fights.
I don't think it was misguided at all. Jones, at his very peak, is something we've never seen. Closest we saw was Tyson. People love to mock these two now, but when it comes to attributes they absolutely blow most boxers away. Jones was from another world at times with what he'd do.
Thing is, the guys which were supposed to be his arch rivals (Toney, Hopkins) were miles behind him. Toney, who you'd think would beat him due to his skills, got absolutely blown away. There was nobody equal to him, hence him having no real rival.
Tony was the Ring fighter of the year a few years before, and was still in his prime. It not Roy's fault that James blew up in-between fights. Hopkins was still very good. Considering what he went on to do, it's a great win.
Who was Jack Johnson's best win? Langford? McVea? Jeffries? Which of these were at their best? Which of these were closer to their best than Toney and Hopkins were to their best? And how do we rate Johnson?
James Toney was PRIME when Roy Jones Jr. beat him. I think Bernard Hopkins was still two or three years away from his absolute best but an excellent boxer anyway.
Agreed 100%. People love to discredit both wins, especially the Hopkins one nowadays. But both were his closest rivals, and he outclassed the pair of them. Toney/RJJ in 2003 is a very good fight. Roy won a HW bauble & James was again the Ring fighter of the year at CW.
If we accept that Jones had a very quick decline after Ruiz and was past his prime for Tarver (and I think that is a very likely assumption taking account the weight he had to shed, his age and how relatively weak and easily gassed he looked in the first Tarver fight), then who has ever looked as good during a prime period of reasonable length (from Hopkins to Ruiz)? Not even Tyson before prison or Ali pre-exile were quite as dominant. Robinson, Pep and Charles are harder to say because we have so little footage of them at their best and it's also a difficult comparison seeing to their much more packed schedule. Duran? Not quite imo. Same with Leonard. Same with PBF, same with Pac, same with just about anyone we have a good amount of footage of and who had a comparable schedule. Closest imo is Pea. Those two are probably the best I've ever seen a good amount of prime footage of. I actually have a feeling that both Loma and Rigo might be on that level, but the only way we can get satisfactory proof of this is if Rigo beats Loma, or at least runs him close, and Loma goes on to have the amazing career his talent seems to justify. Because Rigo can't have many more good years in him, and the time between Donaire and the up-coming fight with Loma has unfortunately been a waste mostly.
A A very good reply. This thread in it's entirety has encouraged me to go back and watch some of the prime Jones bouts. He really did lose so few rounds at his peak. I've achieved what I wanted. I have a better understanding of Roy Jones, and whilst I will never rate him as highly as some here do, I realize that I was rating him a little low.
As I said, I think your ranking was pretty good. A stab at unifying at SMW and, especially, LHW, and a rematch with Hopkins when they were both near their peaks were absolutely realistic prospects, and if Jones had fared as I suspect he would in these, it would be very hard to deny him a spot in the top 20 or perhaps even top 10 for that matter. But he wasn't concerned enough about his legacy and therefore it isn't what it could have been imo. Still goddamn impressive, though. That's why someone like Ward is such a rarity. Not many with plenty of other options would move up to face the scariest mofo that's come along in that division for years. Jones had much more talent, but unfortunately not quite that kind of mindset (at least not after Toney). Pac was also tremendous in his willingness to take on challenges until he chickened out of the effing fight because he was "scared of needless".
