Struggling to place Roy Jones Jr...

I see Pernell as coming before and Floyd coming after, even though they overlapped somewhat. In any case I have Roy ahead of both, I think. Floyd had the better longevity, but Roy was more dominant in his prime and that weighs more heavily for me.

Pea was somewhat less dominant in his prime, I'd say. He gave boxing lessons that were up there with the ones Roy gave, but Roy could also just flatten opponents.

 

Yeah what era you put a fighter in is mostly arbitrary.

Floyd's longevity is pretty much unmatched(only Hopkins is ahead) in boxing history but compared to virtually anybody else Roy had amazing longevity with his first "resume win" against Castro in 92 he became P4P #1 in 94 and would barely lose a round until 2003

 

it was a reality in the 1990s.. He avoided DM and Benn and McClelland and others. Where is the myth?

 

Agree with the ranking

 

But why really Pea above Roy? Roy beat something like 20 ranked opponents across 4 weight divisions, I don't think Pea quite can match that. His best three wins (Toney, Hopkins and Ruiz) should rank on level with Pea's (Chavez, Nelson, Ramirez/McGirt). And the manner of his wins were even more dominant than Pea's, I'd say.

All in all I think this gives Jones the edge. I do like that Pea was willing to face anyone, though.

 

Yes but "Longevity" is a tricky thing I believe .. because I look at complete body of work and number of fights fought before even thinking about years fought. I mean I think number of fights fought is more important than years fought .. So I don't place Floyd as high as some..

 

Bokaj,

Only a handful of his fights paid between the $1.5-2.5m range.

Pazienza -$3m
Hill -$4.5m
Harmon - $4m
Harding -$4m
Woods -$4m
Tarver - $5m

Up until 2000, he was getting pay days of almost $3m a fight. After the Hall fight, he signed a new contract for $4m. And those were just the bottom line guarantees. He also had shares of the PPV's etc.

It's so easy for you to type out the above. You weren't stood in his shoes.

Again, he'd been robbed in the Olympics, and Germany was notorious for horrible decisions.

Did you see Ottke vs Brewer?

Did you see Ottke vs Reid?

Take a look at this clip, where Dariusz pathetically feigned injury to get Rochigianni disqualified in their first fight:

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That's one of the most cringeworthy things I've ever witnessed. And you expected the consensus P4P no.1 fighter in the world, to take over his WBA, WBC and IBF belts, for a similar amount to what he was getting paid at home?

What belt could he have gotten at SMW?

You are not taking on board the information that I'm giving you.

Bernard Hopkins wouldn't fight Roy unless he got paid $10m.

He didn't want the fight.

He turned down $6m, and then fought for $1.3m in his next fight.

You're saying that Roy should have gone to Germany for $5m, yet you don't seem to have an issue with Bernard turning down $6m, despite the fact that Roy had already beaten him, and he'd have had to have dropped weight for the proposed C-W.

You cannot fight people who don't want to fight you.

Take a look at who Dariusz and Bernard fought after the dust had settled:


Bernard fought:

Hakkar (after 13 months out)

Allen


Dariusz fought:

Lakatos

Hall

DeGrandis


Whereas Roy fought:

Ruiz

Tarver


It's crystal clear who wanted big fights and who didn't.

 

The Ruiz fight was his biggest payday at $15m.

 

He didn't avoid them.

I've done extensive research over the years.

Don't automatically assume that he avoided them, just because the fights didn't happen.

That's ignorant.

 

No, only a handful at the time paid over 3 mil (the ones you listed) the rest were below that. In any case, you yourself agree that it would have been his biggest purse at the time since the first fight Tarver wasn't until 2003.

And I don't buy the whole "being robbed in Germany"-thing. He got stiffed against Griffin in the US, didn't make him flee the country.

But as I said two times already, DM and Hopkins should take at least as much blame (probably a bit more) as Roy for the fights not happening, but if Roy looked to his legacy first, at least one of them would have.

At SMW, Liles reportedly called Roy out, but Jones was busy fighting no one of note at SMW after he beat Tony. That Paz probably was his best defense says a lot. Jones time at SMW after defeating Toney was a disappointment, really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Liles

 

Bokaj,

No, BoxRec are incorrect.

They have him listed as earning $2m for the Del Valle fight, when he got $4m.

You've got things back to front.

Only a handful of fights from the late 90's-early 00's, paid him under $2m.

His mandatories paid guarantees of $3m, and that then went up to $4m when he signed a new contract.

He also had added income from the PPV's etc.

He got paid a guaranteed $4m for Hill, with an extra $500,000 from HBO due to a bonus which was written into his contract. He also received a brand new Rolls Royce from the casino that staged the fight. With a share from other forms of income, he'd have made more than $4.5m from that fight.

So why would he have gone to Germany for $5m, when again, he thought it was a huge risk?

He didn't get stiffed against Griffin. Although I don't think he had any bad intentions with those shots, he definitely deserved to be disqualified. I'm one of his biggest fans, yet I've never disputed it.

Regarding Germany, again, look at some of Sven Ottke's fights.

It's easy for you to sit and type out that he should have travelled.

Did you not see the video I posted?

Why have you not mentioned it?

Bernard Hopkins would have been proud of those antics.

Just think about what you're saying.

Again, Roy was robbed in Seoul. Ottke had many gifts. Dariusz pathetically feigned injury to get Roch disqualified. Yet you think that Roy should have gone over with all three of the main belts, just because he'd have been paid a little bit extra than what he was regularly receiving at home?

You're talking absolute nonsense.

If you look objectively from Dariusz's perspective, then I don't blame him for not wanting to fight Roy in the U.S. The only issue that I've ever had with him, is that he kidded to the fans. He had open letters published in magazines, and he repeatedly told the Polish, German and U.S. media, that he was prepared to go to the U.S. to fight Roy. Yet we know that he and his promoter had no intentions of carrying out what they said. Again, Kerry Davis of HBO, is on record stating that Peter Kohl would not sit down to negotiate, and that their proposal of a double header was turned down flat in a heartbeat, without them wanting to discuss any part of it.

Regarding Bernard, again, he demanded $10m or no fight. So how was Roy responsible for that fight not taking place?

Again, Roy was justified in not wanting to fight in Germany, and Dariusz and Bernard made it crystal clear that they wouldn't fight him in the U.S.

Again, you cannot fight someone who doesn't want to fight.

That's incorrect.

Jack O'Halloran who was Liles's manager in 1996, states that they had a great fight lined up against Roy, but Frankie blew it by asking for extra money at the last minute. And O'Halloran was so angry at his behaviour, they ended up parting ways.

As well as O'Halloran stating the above, HBO also publicly backed Roy, when he said he'd offered Frankie his biggest pay day.

The reason why Roy only spent 2 years at SMW, is because he didn't get the opportunities to have unification fights.

As well as Liles, he couldn't get a fight with Benn either. And that's because his advisors couldn't reach a compromise with King, who reportedly wanted future options on Roy.

There's an awful lot of things that happen behind the scenes, which the average fan isn't privy to. Boxing is a ruthless business. Boxing politics have robbed fans of seeing many great fights over the years. You have rival networks and rival promoters, with complex contracts, with the request of future options and specific percentages of the PPV's etc.

Roy missed out on a lot of fights throughout his career. But after doing extensive research throughout the years, I can confirm the following:

Most of the names that get thrown around weren't viable.

Only a handful of fighters truly wanted to fight him when he was prime.

 

who is assuming. I was there. I remember. He avoided many fighters and people were pleading for him to challenge himself. Today people seem to forget that.

 

Then you obviously weren't aware of what was happening behind the scenes at the time.

Please list me all of the fighters who you think he purposely avoided.