Struggling to place Roy Jones Jr...

You're claiming a lot of things without any sources. Don't give much of a crap about such claims.

At MW Jones didn't fight anyone ranked top 3 by the ring during the time he was there. At SMW he only fought Toney of the fighters that were top 3 ranked during those years. He went for six years at LHW without facing the clear nr 2 (behind himself).

Those are all facts that you yourself can look up.

That is a quite lacking record. In fact, I urge you to see if you can to find other greats with so many holes. If you want to believe this is everyone's elses fault but Jones's, then you're free to do so. More objectively minded people probably won't. That's all I really have to say about it.

 

I've just told why he didn't remain at SMW for a prolonged period.

Stop being ignorant.

If you want me to produce the sources, it's not an issue.

 

Roy started declining much earlier than most people realize. First time he looked off was against telesco where he spent more time than usual against the ropes and was getting hit in the head by mma style elbows.....but turned out he had hand problems which started plaguing his career and affecting his power.

He then dominated and beat the crap out of richard hall( a guy eho went on to give dariusz a very tough fight) in a fight where roy(and curiously richard hall as well) tested positive for a substance whoch was not banned by US Law or any of the sanctioning bodies, which is why roy was not reprimanded and kept his titles (however some boxing fans keep bringing this up to discredit him even though, again, the substance andrpstenione was legal and not banned by the ibf, wba or any other sanctioning bodies at the time and was an ingredient in several OTC supplements being sold around the country)

In his next fight against eric harding roy again looked unimpressive but it could be argued that it was just hardings awkward, defensive southpaw style that threw roy off but in his next fight in 2001( 3 years before tarver 2)against julio gonzalez, a conventional fighter who presented roy with no stylistic challenge, in this fight roy showed that he had clearly declined in his footspeed, workrate and ability to move and punch for extended periods of time. Yes he still won every round in dominant fashion and knocked a guy down 3 times that went on to dethrown dariusz....but like max kellerman said in his fnf show that week roy was no longer the same fighter.

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Glen kelly was big but unskilled and clearly lacked confidence and agaimst clinton woods, another guy who went on to have success in the division roy got touched in ways i hadnt seen since the first griffin fight, it no longer looked like roy was going to the ropes voluntarily but was getting pinned there from time to time because his feet couldnt get him away quick enough a trend i first started seeing against gonzalez.

Roy achieved history against ruiz but took a few big right hands in the first few rounds that went mostly unnoticed by boxing fans but when he almost lost against tarver in the following fight it was less the physical effects of moving down in weight but a gradual decline over the past 3+ years that tarver happened to expose. I still had roy winning but it was close and he took alot of hard headshots. Somewhere between the last round of tarver 1 and the johnson fight roys punch resistance (which was still clearly there against griffin, ruiz telesco and del valle) got wiped out and that was that.

His chin was probably never great but he could have taken the shots that are putting him to sleep now 20 years ago without blinking and people wouldnt notice he got hit because he was so flashy and dominant.

If someone put a gun to my head i would pick roy from 94 to 98 over any 160-175 pounder in history

 

The drop in weight was a big factor because he had to lose so much so quickly.

 

Does that include a '52 Archie Moore at LHW ?? Curious to know how this fight plays out for you?

 

Yeah it does, tape on archie moore is limited so i couldnt say for sure but like i said with a gun to my head i just wouldnt bet against roy at his peak because he had the abnormal hand/footspeed and reflexes to eek out a very boring hit and run type decision even against a dangerous, tough and skilled puncher like moore.

jones would employ the toney gameplan except he would be even more cautious and less willing to engage, moore could end it with 1 punvh and even if he just hurt him enough to freeze him for a few seconds moore was a tremendous finisher and a small ring might tip the odds in his favor.

Still jones at his best was so dominat its very difficult to see him lose especially since he actually did come through eventually in the first griffin fight, the harding fight and the first tarver fight after a rocky start in those fights. Griffin had success and got the win..... but the fact that he didnt actually "crack the roy jones code" and jones was between 10 seconds to a minute away from legitimately finishing him off for good tells me that even if he was facing an unfavorable style matchup he could find a way to adapt.
Then there is moores cross arm defense which i think jones with his boxing IQ would find a way to exploit, perhaps by jumping in and clinching moore when moore crossed his arms, allowing him to rest on the inside without getting roughed up.
12 rounds 20 foot ring id bet on jones
16 foot ring 15 rounds its 50/50

 

Fair assessment.. Moore was crafty. Be interesting to see if he could trap and catch Roy in the later rounds.. Thanks

 

I remember all the guys he avoided. You obviously don't want the truth. He had guys he could fight and he avoided them and handpicked similar to Mayweather and Hopkin later.

 

Name them then.

 

I already said it. McClelland, Benn, DM, Eubank, Hopkins rematch. And there are more. Those are just the main guys. Michael Nunn would have been interesting.

 

Roy didn't avoid those guys.

You are obviously just assuming that he did simply because he didn't fight them.


Dariusz:

Kerry Davis of HBO, worked alongside Roy's advisor, Brad Jacobs, to try and bring Dariusz to the U.S. to fight Roy. But Dariusz's promoter, Peter Kohl, wasn't willing to negotiate. In the end, Davis faxed over a proposal of a double header in the U.S. in the hope of introducing Dariusz to the U.S. public. This was planned due to Dariusz having told the media that he was willing to travel to the U.S. Yet the proposal was turned down flat without any attempt to discuss the specifics. Roy never avoided Dariusz, he just wasn't willing to go to Germany.


Hopkins:

Away from the cameras, HBO approached Hopkins and offered him $6m and the option of a comeback fight on their network had he have lost. Yet he declined their offer by demanding $10m. So Roy didn't avoid him. It was Hopkins who clearly didn't want the fight.


Eubank:

Eubank has admitted on numerous occasions that he never chased the big named U.S. fighters of the early 90's. He was more than content to just defend his lightly regarded WBO belt on Sky and ITV in Britain. He said that fighting Roy in his prime would have been career suicide. He did however say that he would have been willing to have fought the likes of Roy, Toney and Nunn etc, if they'd have became his mandatories with the WBO. But although he may have been speaking the truth, Roy and those other guys were never even rated by the WBO, which meant that it would never have been a possibility. Also, you can also follow the timelines of both fighters. If you were to do so, you'd realise that a fight was never viable. So Roy didn't avoid him at all.


Benn:

Benn desperately wanted to fight Roy in 1995. But Roy's handlers at the time, the Levin brothers, couldn't reach a compromise with Don King in order to make the fight. The Levin's and King had a deep dislike and distrust of each other, and King wanted future options on Roy which they weren't willing to accept. Also, Roy had an exclusive contract with HBO, whereas King's fighters fought on Showtime. Roy didn't avoid him.


McClellan:

Another one of King's fighters which made things problematic. But when King made the fight with Benn, he understimated and overlooked Benn, and was already looking to match Gerald up with Roy afterwards. And the rest is history. Roy didn't avoid him.


Nunn:

I've always maintained that Roy should have fought Nunn when he became his mandatory at LHW in 1997. Roy messed him around. Instead of either agreeing to fight him or dropping his belt straight away, he kept changing his mind regarding the fight. He classed Nunn as being a high risk, low reward fight, where he found himself in a no-win position. In the end, he relinquished his belt in the hope of having a mega money fight at HW against James Douglas. And when his father wouldn't let him go through with it at the last moment, Roy then turned his attention towards a smaller HW in Evander Holyfield. He met with Evander in Atlanta early in 1998, but Evander turned down the proposal as he thought he was also in a no-win position, just like how Roy had been with regards to fighting Nunn. Personally, although I think Roy should have fought Nunn, I've never classed it as a duck. Because I know that Roy tried to fight Frankie Liles the previous year in 1996. Both HBO and Liles's ex-manager have confirmed that. So it would have been illogical to have pursued Liles in 1996, before ducking a faded Nunn the following year, especially as also went on to pursue huge money fights at HW.


To summarise: I'll give you Nunn, but you are wrong with regards to the other fighters that you've mentioned.

Again, you cannot accuse Roy of purposely avoiding those guys, just on the grounds that those fights never happened. That's ignorant.

 

I have 2 sources for you.

The first one was a live in-ring interview with Roy, which was conducted live on HBO, just prior to his final fight at SMW, against Bryant Brannon, in October, 1996.

The second link is an interview with Frankie Liles's former trainer/manager, Jack O'Halloran. (scroll down)

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http://ringsidereport.com/?p=2112

 

I dont care if he ducked dived jived or ran.

I WATCHED him.

Prime RJJ was the greatest most gifted fighter ive ever seen. At that time, respected boxing people were actually considering if he were possible a guy who could be greater than SRR.

In his prime hes a clear favorite against anyone 168 or below except SRR and thats 50/50. And hes got a chance against anyone at 175 too.

 

It's all gone quiet.

 

You might be right.. But you also have to give Greb a mention here I believe for a good chance( hard to hit, endless stamina, and an unmatched will to win). Just from his accomplishments it gives him that due .. imo