Sugar Ray - GOAT? For ALL Time?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rumsfeld, Jun 15, 2022.

SRR - The GOAT? For ALL Time?

  1. Yes & Yes

  2. Yes & No

  3. No & No

  1. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Addict Full Member

    Aug 26, 2017
    So funny to continue to read posts from people who haven't figured out the sport yet ... still on the same rants ..... he looks like **** on film .. Blah Blah Blah ... You use what you have and do what you do in order to get the win ... AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS ...EVERY boxer has different strengths and weakness ... power , heart, jab , great hook , etc ... well I look like **** on film , to who? you? LOL ,, look at all the HOFers I am beating , or they haven't seen me on film ??( although many at ringside just saw me kick Tunneys ass twice giving up 12 ****ING POUNDS THEN AGAIN GIVING UP 8 pounds .. do the math
    And what ?? you want to defend and protect and tell me how great a coddled Vegas fighter who is brought along to fight one time a ****ING year is?? LMAO .... it isnt even a comparison ... I'll get in the ring and fight anyone ,, thats why I have 200 fights under my belt .. what you have 37?
    Pac took on all comers, Hearns did , Hagler did ,, very few have that old school I have something to prove mentality ... and you want to tell me how great these modern fighters are?? many who wont even get in the ring with each other are ??/ ,
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
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  2. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

    Mar 31, 2021
    Dempsey is the only one.
    Apart from him, nobody else impressed me to the point I give him a chance against a modern ATG.
  3. Levook

    Levook Active Member Full Member

    Aug 26, 2020
    You keep using it against Greb that you can't remember him being called the best by people of his day, yet you discredit the fight accounts of his day as untrustworthy. Talk about a red flag! And then to accuse Greb & all of these great fighters of being deceivers who fooled the public (which insults the fans' intelligence, who were obviously too stupid to realize all these fixes were in), is just ridiculous.

    Do you have any proof about these things? Or are they just an opinion?
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  4. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    Oct 28, 2017
    Benny Leonard did.
  5. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    Oct 28, 2017
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  6. Blaxx

    Blaxx Member Full Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    I don't know. In the year leading up to SRR, Armstrong beat Zivic, Jenkins, Larkin, Angott and Joyce. After Robinson he went 11-0 before his next defeat.
    Couple that with Robinson being in his 3rd year as a pro and IMO you've got a great win even before adding in that Robinson won every round and "carried" Armstrong.
    Charles wins over Burley were amazing of course but pre-prime Robinson mopping the floor with a post-prime GOAT contender is better surely.

    You have Burley over Gavilan for that era of welters?
  7. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Resident Gadfly Full Member

    Sep 22, 2021
    I reckon Burley is the superior fighter to Gav. In general. He really wasn’t mostly a WW though. Was he? I always thought Burley was more known for his work MW. Your words are they true, present a good case for the Armstrong win. I’ll need to look into it I’m no historian, I wish I was. Lol
    Blaxx likes this.
  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    Coz he doesn't know any better and has a weird agenda.
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    So did Jimmy McLarnin.
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  10. CharlieFirpo85

    CharlieFirpo85 Member Full Member

    Feb 26, 2020
    I have not seen the video yet and voted for Yes & No. I think from the H2H overall package; skill, technique, elegance, power etc he is the p4p GOAT. But it depends on the criterion of evaluation. Archie Moore had more knockouts, Ali had the strongest competition, Louis has more title defences. People like Johnsson or Langford boxed under extreme circumstances. How good could they have been without suppression??? And then there are Harry Greb and others where there is not much video material.

    In the respective subcriteria you can argue: Which record, which achievement should be ranked higher? Whether possibly peak RJJ was better in terms of H2H skills etc.?! I stand by this: Yes & NO. But If you take everything together SRR MUST be in the top 3 GOAT overall.

    Now looking forward to the video. Even if I can't watch it until later.
    Jel likes this.
  11. mark ant

    mark ant Marciano used to dip below opponents waist line Full Member

    May 4, 2017
    Robinson was way ahead of his time.
  12. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Aug 22, 2004
    I voted "no and no." Mostly because I think his reputation at middleweight is largely undeserved. He simply lost too often there. Greb is #1 for me.
  13. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

    Oct 20, 2017
    Great video as always @Rumsfeld!

    My take on SRR is as follows:

    Welterweight - open and shut case. Hands down the greatest ever in this division. Won every fight he ever had there, was a physical freak during his era - at 5’11 he was one of, if not the tallest elite 147 pounders there had been up to that point and would only be giving up 3 inches max over the tallest ever elite welters who have come since, including Hearns - and possessed untouchable skills combined with mind-numbing power. He was the complete package and was the best in his weight class for 8 years until he moved up. As close to unbeatable as any fighter ever was in a single weight division. There is a disappointing amount of footage of him at his absolute peak but what there is combined with later footage at middleweight gives enough of a picture of his greatness at his best weight.

    Middleweight is trickier. People forget that a lot of his fights in the 40s came against middleweights, even though he was still competing as a welter, not least of them against Jake LaMotta who he beat 4 out of 5 during that decade. So, during his physical peak he had a fantastic numerical record at middleweight and it was only in the early 50s that he slipped a little as he was turning 30. His title record for much of the 50s was spotty, but this was when he was 35+ (when that was really old in boxing terms) and he still won the title a further 3 times. He’s a top 4 middleweight without a doubt and that’s worst case.

    Had he won the light-heavyweight title as well? I think that would make it very hard to argue that he wasn’t the all-time p4p number 1. As it is, it leaves enough of a chink to allow others to reasonably contest that title. Would a win over Joey Maxim really be the difference for him over Greb or even Ezzard Charles? I don’t know. I have no doubt he was miles better than Maxim and conditions conspired against him that night and on another occasion he’d have taken the title. But it wasn’t to be…

    Where SRR has the advantage over the likes of Greb is that we have a more complete picture (literally). The footage of him fighting backs up his resume and accomplishments. If Greb footage turns up, maybe I’ll reconsider. If resume alone was the only factor, then maybe Greb would get the nod but Robinson has the complete package of resume, accomplishments, aesthetics and longevity that tips things in his favour for me.
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2022
  14. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    May 30, 2019
    That's funny, considering that Dempsey isn't close to the best or most skilled fighters from that era P4P.
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  15. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    May 30, 2019
    If you think the rest from his era sucked, then does it matter? He still beat inferior competiton by this logic.
    George Crowcroft likes this.