Sugar Ray Leonard and Floyd Mayweather Jr

Leonard by Stoppage .

 

I appreciate the well thought out post and you make some interesting points. Really though, all one would have to do to debunk Chacal's theory is simply look at the footage. The idea that fighters across all the weightclasses today are better technically than fighters of 20-50 years ago is absolutely ridiculous. He's using sweeping statements because it's easier - and lazier - than actually conducting proper ****ysis. No, it depends entirely on the individual fighter we are talking about. I think his generational theory can be applied to a sport like tennis, but not to a sport like Boxing - where there are many different intangibles, things that cannot be taught, that are the difference between being a great fighter or merely a good one.

 

Ray was a natural WW, 5'10, 74inch reach (massive) Floyd has a big reach at 72. ray had quicker hands and far more power. although Floyd was the smarter fighter. Ray actually had the athleticism, strength and skills to beat Floyd.

 

I'm with you on this, I feel that boxing skill has actually regressed, hence why we praise people like Toney, Hopkins and Mayweather with the term "throw back". Fighters these days cannot fight on the inside to save their lives, it's becoming a lost art. Boxers these days are simply just becoming bigger and stronger with less emphasis on proper sound boxing technique, which is why the likes of Mayweather have done so well. He can fight at every range, but has natural abilities like speed, reflexes and an unusually long reach for his size.

Same day weigh ins also seem to be forgotten about, I'd guarantee that FMJ is WELL over 160lbs on fight night if Berto came in at 157. Floyd dwarfed him in there.

 

Leonard. Taller, longer reach, as fast or faster and hits harder. And can throw in combination.

 

It was an unimpressive fight but I am not gauging how good leonard was Im going by how well floyd father did and we know jr is worlds better. Same style one is an ATG tho

maidana judah ect sure we seen many guys beat the snot out of mayweathers past accomplishments but when they face mayweather they lose the exact same way.

Consistant

 

May would shoulder roll almost all of Leonard's punches.

I see this as a very good fight, I can see May pulling through

 

Leonard has the power and speed to catch and hurt Floyd. On the other hand Leonard was able to take Hearns power so his chin is just ATG level. Floyd power is underrated but he has nothing to trouble Leonard. I think that SRL will stop him late. That said he is the natural WW so that's normal.

 

Rigo that got put on his ass by some C+ fighters won't beat Gomez.

 

You mean I did all that thinking for nothing!!! OMG.

 

Floyd gets hammered.

It just isn't close and never would be, Ray beats him however he wants to , Ray walked down Hearns and outboxed Hagler.

Floyds best win was against a golfer.

 

Name one fighter with reach advantage that may weather ever faced.

The Judah fight is and DLH fight are brief examples of how a peak Leonard would destroy may weather at 147.

DLH shot version controlled the early parts of the fight with a jab. Then he simply stopped punching as he always did recently. So was it an adjustment of DLH simply being historically tight and then becoming winded?

Judah who always in every fight has good first 4-5 rounds then gets beat down the rest of the way. Vs mayweather he was owning mayweather first 4 rounds. Then as usual he could not keep up. Yes adjustment by money here but who didn't beat Judah after 4 rounds. Including fighters like Baldimir

When you compare peak Leonard who had equal speed of Judah, more weapons, better jab than DLH, more stamina than both, smarter than both, hits harder than both, better combinations than both..----

The biggest thing he had more reach that both and mayweather. Mayweather for some reason avoided every single fighter who had a reach advantage over him. DLH had equal reach and a shot version of him fought money to a virtual tie. A shot version who lost 4 to 5 of his recent fights .

Ray footwork was just as good, yes he waisted energy buy what did it matter. Did you see him vs Duran Benitez and hearns?? He was always the better fighter diwn the stretch.

There is no way money comes close to peak aggressive Leonard . For those not happy with his performance vs FLOYD Sr... What fight was you looking at. Leonard destroyed his father. Each round he parity you walked his father down and by the end of each round he was pounding Sr. Dropped him twice , knocked him through the ropes, won each round , stopped him. The game plan was stay on top of him because he could not hurt him. ..

 

I agree with both the comment/s above and those of Vanboxingfan. The variables are many, interchangeable (across generations) with countless permutations.

I would further one point, however, and that is, when it comes to technical ability, there is a finite limit to how far that can evolve. As with 'form' in any of the martial arts, there is learning and there is mastery; there is not an infinite number of levels of mastery in physical combat sports.

Conversely and as implied by your post, technical skills across the board are more likely to diminish than they are to continuously improve. There are modern-day examples of where technical skills are dispensed with in favour of flashy moves and power; as there are examples of those, who once relied on speed and reflexes that, when faded, leave them to rely on technical ability alone.

The theory of continuous improvement over time/generations, in Boxing, is most certainly the "lazy" kid's way of trying to bully the argument. This, unfortunately for them, comes across as a bit moronic, with an utter inability to think critically. Sadder still is that they rest their case on this argument, which they are unable to explain and support in any intelligent way.

People exposed in this way are, in most cases, too far gone to comprehend reasoned counterarguments, learn something new and perhaps take a different perspective on things. As such, they are lost and, in the main, not worth exchanging with. It's a shame.


In respect to the OP's questions...

Leonard was a superior all-round Boxer to Mayweather Jr; a full-sized Welterweight, who fought other full-sized Welterweights. A greater physical presence than Mayweather and any of his opponents, Leonard would be the most powerful Boxer Mayweather had ever faced. There would be little to separate them in speed but Leonard could cover more ground more quickly than Mayweather, in my opinion.

While I can see Mayweather having some mild, early success with his offense, I think everything would ultimately hinge on his defensive capabilities. However, I don't think this wouldn't be enough to beat Leonard. Unlike some of those who have attempted to maul their way through Mayweather's defense, Leonard could apply pressure and puncture it without getting up close and dirty. In some ways, I suspect this would force Mayweather to become more offensive and this is where Leonard would capitalize further still.

Could Leonard KO Mayweather? Perhaps. if he saw a chance to; letting rip with crisp combinations, it's easy to imagine. But, it would be a comfortable points victory for Leonard, in any event.

 

Really ? https://www.ted.com/talks/david_eps...ly_getting_faster_better_stronger?language=en

 

I don't know, SRL was a speed demon dude.

Pretty accurate as well, even with power punches.