Sugar Ray Leonard and Muhammad Ali were both showboaters. Which of them was the better fighter?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Apr 26, 2021.

  1. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Oct 22, 2015
    Well, I would imagine that's better than being a wife murderer as one of the
    more popular fighter on this site did.
  2. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    May 4, 2017
    Leonard beat his wife while on coke, he became a drug addict because he was sexually abused by an olympic boxing coach, Ali was actually physically attacked by his wife who was a black belt in karate, after she found out he was having an affair with another women, I never heard anything about Ali being a wife beater, but he did treat his women like trash though.
    Balder likes this.
  3. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    Leonard had a more complete skill set. Better inside fighter, punched to the body. Hit harder for his division. Also Ray was facing more skilled opponents.
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  4. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    Sugar Ray Robinson witnessed it. He mentioned one incident.
  5. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    Mar 19, 2012
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  6. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    No, Ali is greater because he did more. He fought more. He ducked nobody until really late but the guy fought everyone. Ali defended his title many more times.
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  7. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    Greb, Charles, Louis, Robinson, Pep, Moore, Griffith..Kid Gavilan, Armstrong. That's off the top. We can't overlook the work these guys diid because Leonard was more recent and famous. Ray was a superstar but that is a different thing.

    You could reasonably sneak Ali up as high as 5-7. P4P. Leonard maybe #20-25.

    Ray also lost to Duran in his prime who had moved up in weight. He did beat Hearns, a great win. Then there is a big gap. Basically nothing from 82-87. We saw him lose to Hearns in a rematch.. The Hagler fight he won it on paper. That night is a whole nother argument. I'm far from alone in that opinion. By age 34, Terry Norris had to carry him the distance. He was no longer competitive. I dont see GOAT level dominance.

    So were the greatest in history? Leonard a great fighter? Yes. One of the most talented? Yes.Could he had reached the level you are claiming for him? Sure but he didn't do it..He is in the top 5 Welterweight anywhere from 2-5.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  8. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jan 19, 2016
    Ali himself said he hit Sonji Roi, his first wife. Sorry. Cant recall source.
  9. SheenLantern

    SheenLantern Active Member Full Member

    Jan 13, 2016
    I don't rank fighters for which there exists little or no high quality prime footage of them or their opponents.

    I can't help but think of this meme

    This content is protected

    When it comes to the almost mythical status these old fighters have attained. I never saw them fight, and I'm not gonna rank them based on second hand information from the notoriously fallible boxing "experts".
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  10. Toney F*** U

    Toney F*** U Boxing junkie Full Member

    Oct 16, 2019
    I was joking, I only said he should’ve brought that up because he called them both show boaters for literally no reason
  11. White Bomber

    White Bomber Well-Known Member Full Member

    Mar 31, 2021
    Are you sure about him not ducking nobody ? If so, then why didn't he give Foreman an immediate rematch ?
    Anyway, I don't really remember SRL ducking anyone either.
    Plus, I already said I see Ali as greater, but not as a better boxer p4p.
  12. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict Full Member

    Aug 17, 2011
    This is a good post.
    Ali got away with a lot because he fought at heavyweight. If you put him at 147, Ali, even the "prime", pre 1967 version, would have had a hard time of it.
    If Ali and Leonard were both welterweights, Leonard would beat him.
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  13. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

    Jul 15, 2008
    Ali was hit hard and often by Doug Jones, Karl Mildenberger and Zora Folley. Ali was hit a ton against all time great Joe Frazier without giving up huge height and reach like Leonard did w Hearns .. Ali was all natural speed and reflexes, very little traditional boxing skill ..
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  14. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    May 4, 2017
    Frazier was expert at landing hooks and Ray never met a hooker as good as Joe aside from Duran, Ali adapted midway through his bout v Mildenberger and took over, Ali hadn`t reached his peak v Jones and Foley hardly landed a shot on Ali in a pretty boring fight until Ali turned the heat up and stopped Foley.
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jan 4, 2008
    I'd say that's a big oversimplification.

    Neither would I agree that Mildenberger and Folley hit him often and hard. I think this post is a classic example of spinning everything as far as you can. Yes, Mildenberger and Folley presented him with some problems, but they weren't punishing fights for him. And, yes, there were holes in his game, but if you think that he had very little tradional boxing skille then you frankly don't know what you're looking at.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021