Sugar Ray Leonard and Muhammad Ali were both showboaters. Which of them was the better fighter?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Apr 26, 2021.

  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Excuses , excuses. Every major trains said the same thing on Ali .. he did everything wrong, got by on supernatural reflexes till they failed then on toughness and ended up a vey sick man from all the punishment he took because he lacked boxing skill and stayed around too long ..
     
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  2. Balder

    Balder Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali was a battleship

    Leonard was a dingy.

    Ray only fought a few people in their primes , Ali was so good, he not only fought the best, he mocked them.

    Different league entirely - Leonard would showboat only when he was outclassing his opponent, or trying to make them mad. Ali, mocked and showboated before and then during his matches. I was just a whole different level .
     
  3. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Duran hit Ray more than li ws hit by Jones, Mildenberger or Foley as did Hagler and Kalule.
     
  4. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Natural skills or boxing skills ?
     
  5. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Duran is in another stratosphere to those guys. As is Hagler. Kalule is superior too. I can't believe you're trying to make a case built around that argument.
    I watched FOTC again last night.
    It's insane how often Frazier caught Ali. He could barely miss.
     
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  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Both, of course. There is no and/or for any great fighter ever. Ali had both, but relied heavily on his natural skills, as we all know.

    Surely, you do understand that this isn't black or white, just the one or just the other?
     
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, that left hook found its mark many times. It should be said that he often ate a lot of shots to get into position to deliver it, though.
     
  8. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali was in better condition in the rematch and fought better, Frazier threw more shots in that fight than Hagler or Kalule did v Ray, Leonard moved much more v Hagler than Ali did v Frazier and threw a lot less shots leaving him less open to counters, he also landed a lot less v Hagler.
     
  9. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm not sure what your argument is. Leonard moved more against Hagler therefore he got hit less? He left himself less vulnerable to counters?
    Isn't that the point?

    Ali was in great condition for FOTC. You don't go 15 rounds at that pace taking those shots otherwise.
    He got hit alarmingly often by Frazier, who essentially threw one kind of punch in the fight, the hook.
    Sorry to say, but any other fighter other than Ali would have been crucified for not being able to deal with just one punch.

    Look at the swarming pressure Ray had to deal with, from a two-fisted aggressive ATG in Duran. He dealt with it far better than Ali did, who basically took shots because he couldn't negate the hook.
    Yeah he lost, though not by much, but he didn't have to ship shots like Ali did.

    Only a shot Leonard took the kind of punishment Ali took against Frazier and others.
     
  10. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not during the 60`s while world champ, aside from the Chuvalo fight,
    Chuvalo reminisced about his fighting days with detailed memory and the insurmountable pride which still resides within him during a recent Best I’ve Faced interview with
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    .

    Best overall: Muhammad Ali in 1966. Although his quickness was outstanding he was able to absorb a great shot and he tricked you in the ring. You could hurt Ali and never know it. By his own admission I had him in trouble once or twice, but I didn’t take advantage. I only had 17 days notice for that fight, and if I’d had an extra month of preparation then that would have helped me a lot.
     
  11. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali wasn`t in great condition v Frazier and wwas quicker in the rematch, he was also past his prime, Ray moved too much v Hagler and didn`t throw enough punches, Ali landed far more v Frazier by comparison.
     
  12. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, the 60's Ali was harder to hit, no doubt. I don't think Chuvalo hit him that much either tbh. Fair amount of low blows, though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  13. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali was a bit heavier for that bout too.
     
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, 215. But still lean and light on his feet.
     
  15. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You're just repeating yourself. Your logic here has severe holes in it.
     
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