Sugar Ray Leonard was Better than Sugar Ray Robinson

He was but I still think Robinson is a clear favourite over Duran it's not a 50/50 match up in my view.

Duran wouldn't be able to bully Robinson like he did Leonard.

 

Hi Buddy.
Excellent post, thoughtful and incisive, one of the most salient and aware post, amongst a plethora of informative contributions, kudos for that, a few posters, of whom I look up to and admire, have said that Robinson hits significantly harder than Leonard, how can this be ascertained, we have no discernable footage of Robinson in his WW days as far as I am aware, some would have the WW fighter better than the MW version, not least because of the huge run of victory's, and the opposition, that being ex champs, and full blooded MWs , the redoubtable LaMotta being just one of a formidle group, as to his punching power being that much harder than Leonards, I am slightly at odds with this, for sure Robinson was the harder puncher ( mind you the punch that felled Green was special ) but not by the distance some posters have it, imo, that said, I would have Robinson as the greater fighter for all round ability, thanks for your post, look forward to the next.
stay safe Rollin.

 

I totally agree, was just pointing out Duran doesn't just have one great performance at 147.

 

If I'm being honest Palomino fight did slip my mind I don't know why because I often rate Palomino as one of the more underrated Welterweight champions iron chin aswell.

I'll use the excuse that it was me trying to discuss boxing just before bedtime.

 

It's all good mate i was surprised you hadn't mentioned it. It's an easy one to forget as it's not often talked about which is a bit of a shame.

 

If LaMotta could beat Robinson at welterweight, though
he was heavier than he was by about 15 pounds .
I don't understand how it's totally out the question
for some posters to believe ,Duran, who was far better skilled than Lamotta
couldn't do the same.
I believe Duran especially the version that showed up in
Montreal would beat Robinson just as convincingly as he
beat Leonard.

 

I'd have to disagree with you for once Flash. SRR was one scary offensive machine with great power and slashing handspeed. He would also let his hands go time and time again. As i think Meta said earlier, he was very offensive minded. Leonard could get as little loopy with his right hand at times. I think Duran would pay a much bigger price burrowing in at Robinson. It's robinson for me in a barn burner.

 

It was never easy for Robinson against LaMotta, even when
he became a full fledged middleweight., LaMotta was able
to land his fair share of punishment in the five fights they fought.
Styles make fights, LaMotta had that certain style that seemed
to trouble Robinson, though Robinson was a far superior fighter
overall.
But so was Duran. Duran fought with the same aggression and tenacity
as LaMotta but was much better skilled and quicker of hand and foot.
No question Robinson was was a offensive powerhouse.
But I believe Duran at his best could nullify his attack the way
he did Leonard.
The one caveat I'll add and where Robinson would have
a decided advantage is Robinson wouldn't let Duran
get under his skin and fight and dumb fight the way
Leonard did.
Robinson wouldn't lose his cool. That fact is
where Robinson probably beat Duran. But it wouldn't
be a cake walk.

 

The two biggest factors for me, Robbi got great leverage on his punches, didn't need as much room to throw with power as Leonard did and more importantly, the way he throws his right, whether straight, hook and uppercut and the ability to throw his slashing left hook and hookercut at the drop of a dime means as Roberto comes in, he is walking onto shots that Robbi's timing and rhythym starts finding a home for.

That Robbi always retaliated to the body with a ferocious defiance and then doubled and tripled hooks and punctuated with the right - Robbi holds many of the same leverage and handspeed advantages that Hearns did, hits arguably as hard and used his left jab to disguise the right in the same vein.

 

Hi Joey good discussion you got going here,
here's some technique breakdowns of Robinson you might want to look at, to give a better understanding of the more subtle skills Robinson had, also got some decent quality prime Robinson footage ill upload

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This content is protected

 

100% true. Ray Leonard gets misclassified as a stick and move Ali type fighter, when the reality is that he was much more effective as a come forward, flat footed fighter. A lot of the dancing stuff he did was mostly flash, including that 2nd Duran fight.

All of that dancing shyt wasn't doing a thing against Hearns, for instance, and he couldn't do a thing until he stopped moving and sat down on his punches.

 

Joey I'm speaking for myself here. As far as in the ring goes its Robinson by a mile. For methere is only one man worthy of the name Sugar Ray & that is Mr Robinson. To me Leonards name should be Saccharin Ray Leonard he was nothing but a poor substitute. Away from the ring the way Leonard treated Donald The Lone Star Cobra Curry was disgusting. I can say without compunction Leonard is not one of Texas' chosen

 

I've discussed this before and went against the grain of consensus thought like the OP. Leonard was the more technically sound & more polished boxer. He was sharper, more accurate & better defensively. Robinson has the better resume overall, is a bit bigger, stronger, a harder puncher & more durable (Leonard was pretty durable too). He also is the better offensive fighter for sure.

H2H they're pretty even matched up. It'll be like looking in a mirror. However, both guys were strategists first before they were sluggers - so this will likely be a chess-match. A chess-match (IMO) will definitely favour Leonard as he was the better boxer. A dog fight favours Robinson as he's better offensively, but I don't think he'd fight that way for most of the bout. Both are boxers at heart so they'll both look to outsmart & outbox the other. Leonard will win this battle and walk out with a Close UD or MD victory.

 

Extremely meritorious points.

 

Nor should it have been easy. In their first fight we have a welterweight fighting a bonafide middleweight, a middleweight it's fair to say who became an ATG. Reasonably similar career stages. The second and third fights not much later again saw Robinson well inside the welterweight limit and LaMotta actually over and above middleweight. The fourth fight is again virtually two different divisions, SRR just over and Jake just under. The fifth fight sees 159 and 150, miles apart again for all intents and purposes. So five of these fights feature a SRR with a severe weight disadavantage against an ATG proponent. At this point the series is nothing but a credit to SRR. Why would SRR not have trouble against such an opponent? The fact that he was doing as well as he actually did speaks volumes for me. It's like making Duran fight SRL but as a lightweight and even well inside the lightweight limit.

At last we see their title fight. The St. Valentine's Day Massacre. Even at this point SRR only comes in at 155 1/2 and actually belts LaMotta out of there in one of the great performances.

Duran won't have the enormous benefit of having 15 pounds on Robinson. It's a huge difference. Robinson was punching a 160 pound iron chinned warrior who didn't know what giving up was. I don't see any great inroads for Duran from Jake. Robinsons power, big even against 160 pound warriors is huge at his own best weight and he has the slashing handspeed and combos to go with it. As good as Leonard's offense was Robinson simply outstrips him and brings other intangibles, pointed out perfectly by Meta, into the match.

I agree it's no cakewalk but Robinson's offense is going to be telling. There's no chance anyone nullifies and stifles it at 147 for mine.