Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

I guess in the same way that Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali didn't really beat Sonny Liston?

 

Agreed. Duran seriously thought about retiring after "no mas". Don King pulled the plug on promoting him again, and it wasn't until Bob Arum showed faith in him that his career got back on track. The Cuevas victory was the real breakthrough fight in Duran's redemption after New Orleans.

Duran's mindset was certianly not on a third fight when waived his hands saying "no mas, thats for sure.

 

**** yeah, they're fruit to spot mate. Sounds like you've got them pinned yourself too

:good

 

Leonard doesn't get enough credit for beating Duran, and I'm a huge Duran fan but the fact is Leonard is 2-1 against Duran. It’s not his fault Duran was in poor shape the second time and Duran was coming of his win against Barkley the third time which was a huge win for him.

 

This is a poor analogy. Clay was all over Liston in their first fight. He won almost every round and had Liston reeling. It was obvious that Liston was no match for Clay. In the rematch, Clay dropped him with a perfect counter right hand that Liston didn't even see coming. That punch was like a laser in its speed and accuracy. The fact that Liston retired with a busted shoulder the first time doesn't have any bearing on Clay's accomplishment. In my opinion, Liston definitely looked for a way out of a second beating in the rematch and you could see by Clay's reaction that he wasn't happy about that. In contrast, Leonard wasn't administering a beating to Duran in their rematch. In fact, in the round before Duran quit Leonard was ****ing off. The only thing that accomplished was a scoulding by Dundee who shamed Leonard for acting like a clown (Leonard was no Ali). Besides, Duran had beaten Leonard in the first fight. Liston never came close to beating Ali.

 

If Leonard had outboxed Duran or knocked him out then he would be getting lots of credit. But we all saw the rematch and if we are honest we admit that Leonard wasn't doing anything special and Duran looked to be in poor health. It wasn't a great fight and Leonard didn't look impressive in it. And we now know from the horse's mouth that Leonard manipulated the whole affair outside the ring so that he could have some expectation of winning. The third match was god awful and is best forgotten completely for the sake of the reputation of the manly science. Run rabbit run doesn't deserve anybody's appreciation.Tigeredge's point remains important: On Leonard's record he has two wins over Duran, but neither of those wins are impressive. It's the loss to Duran on Leonard's record that is the more relevant for accessing Leonard's career, for it is that fight that allows observers to best gauge their respective abilities. Both came to fight. Leonard even thought he won (but since everybody is against him they took his title away and gave it to Duran).

 

The trick is knowing that you made him quit and not that he quit for some other reason. Sometimes it looks like a fighter makes another fighter quit by administering a serious beating to him or when he is completely outclassed. Look at Liston in his corner against Clay. He looks like a beaten man. There you can make a case that Ali made him quit. But I don't see anything in New Orleans that would lead me think that Leonard made Duran quit. Leonard wasn't administering a beating to Duran. He hadn't inflicted any injuries. He hadn't floored Duran or even wobbled him. Saying that Leonard made Duran quit in New Orleans is a conclusion with zero evidence. Honestly, it sounds just like something a fanboy would say.

 

You miss the meaning of my analogy: I am referring to those fans who claim that Listoon wasn't "himself" for those 2 fights with Ali, whether he threw the fights for fear of the Muslims, the underworld, or for just suddenly "getting old", or whatever. You've read all the excuses some fans have made for Liston, whether they're fans of Liston, or just haters of Ali. So, to them, Ali NEVER defeated Liston. He had shady reasons for quitting in the first fight, he went down and quit in the second fight. You know, conspiracy theorists. So it's an appropriate analogy to use when referring to Leonard-Duran. But I'm of course being sarcastic, because Leonard WAS beating Duran in that rematch, and masterfully so, and caused him to quit out of frustration. In the third fight, Leonard clearly one that one too, I mean, come on now, he won a clear, unanimous decision over Duran, let's not be ridiculous.

 

RAY LEONARD BEAT A ROBERTO DURAN THAT HAD IN TURN BEAT HIMSELF JUST 5 MONTHS EARLIER SO IT'S NOT AS IF HE AGED OVERNIGHT. HE ALSO WON TITLES MANY YEARS LATER. LETS NOT PRETEND THIS WAS OLD AND DYING DURAN. EVEN IN THE REMATCH DURAN HAD JUST BEATEN BARKLEY AND FINALLY HAD HIS CHANCE AT REVENGE ON THE GUY THAT HAD LED HIM TO HUMILATE HIMSELF ALL THOSE YEARS AGO.

 

All said and done, Duran was a Pro and should have come in ready in top condition for the 2nd fight. If not he should have delayed it, he's a grown man and he had what Leonard wanted. Guess he thought he had Ray Physced out after the first fight.

Regardless It was Duran's responsibility to show ready to go. He may have lost anyway, but we will never know.

 

Actually not at all, i'm just showing him how rude and annoying caps are