Sugar Ray never truly beat me & he knows it

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Jun 5, 2019.



  1. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think he was this mismatch in size his fans want to say he was (to give him an excuse).
     
  2. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Is there anyone out there that believes Kirkland Laing was better than Ernesto Marcel, Ken Buchanan, Esteban DeJesus or Ray Leonard? Well Duran lost to Laing at 154. To say Duran was natural to the 154 limit is saying then that Laing was better than Duran. Is there anyone out there that believes that? I didn't think so.
     
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  3. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Member Full Member

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    I don't even think Leonard I was Duran's best filmed performance, he was already slowing down. His greatest win though. And yes, I think he could beat Hearns at Welter, or at least even the fight. It's only when you get into the higher weight classes where an aging Duran's struggles with mobile fighters becomes more pronounced.

    In the rematch, I believe Frazier showed a flash of the frustrations he could have given Foreman if he was more motivated. Because it was such a dominating win, people tend to over look how poorly Frazier was prepared for that first Foreman fight. I would say he was in less desirable shape than Tyson was when he lost to Douglas.
     
  4. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Member Full Member

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    I've only been here a short time but this PSP guy just seems to have it out for Duran. He probably does believe Laing was better.
     
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  5. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    you have been here a short time. I don't think people know how to interpret what I say or have said. I have said sure he was best at 135, but not as big a difference from 147 and 154 as his fans want to make it seem.. If his aura was affected more than his skills, then perhaps that had to do with struggling. But the fact was he fought better guys when he moved up than he fought at 135. And he lost to all the elites he fought at these higher weights. So it is hard to really rate Duran against elites. He fought lesser guys at 135 and won more dominantly, yet moved up fought better guys and lost easily.
     
  6. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Member Full Member

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    You are wrong on all these points for reasons that have been explained to you over and over.
     
  7. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I LOVE Leonard! Best fighter EVER!!!
     
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  8. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ok. Take care.
     
  9. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    EXACTLY!

    Duran was just too flat footed

    It was STYLES that decided this

    Wouldnt go along with you on the Hagler Hearns analysis since both fighters were multi dimensional talents
     
  10. Matt Bargas

    Matt Bargas Member Full Member

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    None of Duran’s opponents at 135 were any good? Why? Because he beat them all?
     
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  11. Matt Bargas

    Matt Bargas Member Full Member

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    Of course there’s a big difference. That was not the point.
    It was simply a reply to the statement that no lightweight ever beat someone with a 78” reach.

    Having said that, it would have been interesting to see a Pryor vs Hearns rematch at welter.
     
  12. Matt Bargas

    Matt Bargas Member Full Member

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    [QUOTE="Bah Lance, post: 19888095, member: 120691
    Had we saw Duran from Leonard 1 vs Hearns from Leonard 1 at Welter I think it still would have been a very hard fight for Duran. While Duran is better equipped for Hagler and Leonard than Hearns....Hearns is pretty wrong for Duran.[/QUOTE]

    It certainly would be a tough dilemma for Duran:

    If he’s too cautious, Hearns easily keeps him at a distance and wins on points.

    If he’s super aggressive, he risks getting clocked on the way in, and he’s not going to absorb a punch the way Hagler did.

    For Duran to win, he’s going to have to make Hearns miss a lot, just as he made Leonard miss in their first fight. If he can do that and quickly counter and get inside, then Hearns is vulnerable. Hearns won’t be able to absorb Duran’s punches the way Leonard did.
     
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  13. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They were good, just not elite like Hearns, Hagler, Leonard and Benitez. Duran had the good excuse he moved up when he fought the best guys he fought.
     
  14. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It certainly would be a tough dilemma for Duran:

    If he’s too cautious, Hearns easily keeps him at a distance and wins on points.

    If he’s super aggressive, he risks getting clocked on the way in, and he’s not going to absorb a punch the way Hagler did.

    For Duran to win, he’s going to have to make Hearns miss a lot, just as he made Leonard miss in their first fight. If he can do that and quickly counter and get inside, then Hearns is vulnerable. Hearns won’t be able to absorb Duran’s punches the way Leonard did.[/QUOTE]
    He was not as quick as Leonard and he did not get under Hearns punches in 1984. You can blame age or being overweight or the weather or anything, but he was only 32 and at a weight he fought for years. His style was all wrong for Duran and he was not used to fighting a tall guy with arms that long and fast. I don't see how much changes in 7 pounds to welterweight.
     
  15. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Member Full Member

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    He was not flat footed, that is insane and destroyed by countless hours of video evidence.

    Duran was only at a stylistic disadvantage against movers when he himself aged and moved up in weight. It's not exactly profound to note that an older smaller fighter will struggle against larger faster fighters that won't engage. In his physical prime he brutalized good to great rangy movers Ernesto Marcel, Ken Buchanan, and Viruet in the rematch. He also beat the best of them all in Sugar Ray Leonard. Despite being smaller DeJesus was also an elusive target.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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