Sugar Ray Robinson- A Great. But THE Greatest????

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by joecaldragon, Aug 1, 2008.


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  1. joecaldragon

    joecaldragon Guest

    An excerpt from an article in Boxing Monthly magazine:

    "...his championship reigns were not 'great' by any stretch- indeed, if Joe Louis was as inconsistent as Robinson he could have been a 10-time heavyweight champ.

    Sugar Ray beat LaMotta for the middleweight crown in February 1951, lost it in his first defence to Randy Turpin in the July and then regained it in September. He defended twice in 1952 before losing an attempt at Joey Maxim's light-heavyweight title and subsequently retired. In Dec 1955 he returned and beat new champ Carl 'Bobo' Olsen, whom he also beat in a 1956 rematch. In 1957 he managed to lose and regain the title in bouts with Gene Fullmer and also lose to Carmen Basilio. 1958 saw Sugar Ray win his legendary fifth 160lbs title with a 15-round decision over Basilio in what would be his last middleweight title victory. He lost in his first defence to Paul Pender and then had three losing efforts to win his former title for the sixth time.

    Without wishing to detract from Robinson's achievements, it's not often noted that his middleweight world title record was an average 8-6-1... and he only managed three defences over his five reigns (in three reigns he lost in his first defence)..."


    I ain't trying to diss SRR, I just read this and was pretty ****ing surprised. Earlier on, it also noted he only made 6 defences of the welterweight world title. Just thought I'd put it on here to see the responses.

    I know the old dudes will go ape**** for me even putting this question out there, but I'm thinkin:

    is this really the record/resume/achievements of THE UNDISPUTED GREATEST BOXER EVER, or does it show that the guy is a TRUE GREAT but who has got better with time coz all the older fans love harking back to 'the old days'?

    I've saw a few of his fights on video, and it's clear he was a very special fighter, but the greatest ever should be a brilliant boxer with a record to match- is this really a good enough record to set him head and shoulders above everyone else in history??

    This ain't no blasphemy, I'm just putting it out there...
     
    joecaldragon, Aug 1, 2008
    joecaldragon, Aug 1, 2008
    #1
  2. ocelot

    ocelot Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Angelo Dundee and Carmine Basilio both say that Willie Pep was the greatest they ever saw.
     
    ocelot, Aug 1, 2008
    ocelot, Aug 1, 2008
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  3. MasterFlo

    MasterFlo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There's no greatest of all time, that's what makes it all so interesting. Rocky Marciano had the record, Roy Jones Jr. had the skill, Ali had the excitment and Joe Louis had an amazing reign. No one can ever put it all together.
     
    MasterFlo, Aug 1, 2008
    MasterFlo, Aug 1, 2008
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  4. sthomas

    sthomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ali#1
     
    sthomas, Aug 1, 2008
    sthomas, Aug 1, 2008
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  5. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He might be the GOAT. But Henry Armstrong also has a lot of arguments.

    Robinson's best wasn't at Middleweight, though. He was inconsisted and also retired. Robinson's best was at 147, and had a pretty good reign there (1946-1950).
     
    Asterion, Aug 1, 2008
    Asterion, Aug 1, 2008
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  6. mrbassie

    mrbassie Boxing Addict Full Member

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    he may have lost a few title fights but they were all to top opposition and other than the maxim fight, all decisions, all close, all avenged. Robinson imo is the best I've ever seen on film or, to be more precise the best all rounder. ko power, speed, endurance, stamina, great boxing skill, footwork, aggression - he had it all
     
    mrbassie, Aug 1, 2008
    mrbassie, Aug 1, 2008
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  7. sugarngold

    sugarngold RIDDUM Full Member

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    I believe the designation "The Greatest" rightfully belongs to Muhammad Ali.
     
    sugarngold, Aug 1, 2008
    sugarngold, Aug 1, 2008
    #7
  8. joecaldragon

    joecaldragon Guest

    6 fights? Even if everyone he fought was an ATG, which they werent, it's still not a long illustrious reign, is it?
     
    joecaldragon, Aug 1, 2008
    joecaldragon, Aug 1, 2008
    #8
  9. The Thruth!!!!!

    The Thruth!!!!! Active Member Full Member

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    Determining who the GOAT is is a very subjective thing. I think SRR was the best based on the amount of times he fought and won.
     
    The Thruth!!!!!, Aug 1, 2008
    The Thruth!!!!!, Aug 1, 2008
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  10. Shaolin Box

    Shaolin Box Respect Full Member

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    # of fight + quality of opposition makes him one of the best ever.
     
    Shaolin Box, Aug 1, 2008
    Shaolin Box, Aug 1, 2008
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  11. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Most of his legacy was built in none title fights. You need to look at who he fought and how he went 71-0. Most of his middleweight losses were past-prime after he came out of retirement

    The biggest hit on Robinsons legacy is WHO HE DIDNT FACE - Burley, Charles, Moore, etc etc
     
    PowerPuncher, Aug 1, 2008
    PowerPuncher, Aug 1, 2008
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  12. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    He's not the UNDISPUTED greatest ever. He's the consensus greatest ever, but others have arguments as well.

    As far as him being champ for a short time, it took him awhile to get a title shot.

    Hell, he beat the lightweight champ in a non-title bout within a year of his pro debut.
     
    Thread Stealer, Aug 1, 2008
    Thread Stealer, Aug 1, 2008
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  13. pasky2000

    pasky2000 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Let's not forget that Sugar Ray Robinson started fighting in October of 1940 and lost only once until July of 1951 with a total of 128 wins in 132 fights !! That's during his peak years at his peak weight !!

    He's one of the Greats, but the Greatest of all time will always be a matter of personal opinion....
     
    pasky2000, Aug 1, 2008
    pasky2000, Aug 1, 2008
    #13
  14. Ectoplasm

    Ectoplasm BOXING IS DEAD Full Member

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    He was at one point 128-1-2 having been unbeaten in 40 amateur bouts before that. Without getting into whether or not he was the greatest, that was a phenomenal record.
     
    Ectoplasm, Aug 1, 2008
    Ectoplasm, Aug 1, 2008
    #14
  15. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    he was in his 30´s and past his prime at MW.in his prime his only loss was to Lamotta who outweighed him by 10 pounds and of course he went on to beat five times.
     
    bladerunner, Aug 1, 2008
    bladerunner, Aug 1, 2008
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