Sugar Ray Robinson- A Great. But THE GREATEST????

Record - Great
Achievement - Great
Competition - Great
Punch Power - Great
Speed - Great
Stamina - Great
Chin - Great
Heart - Great
Footwork - Great
Ring Generalship/Intelligence - Great
Longevity - Great
Entertainment Value - Great

IMO Robinson was as close to perfection as you are gonna get in a boxer. I certainly rate him as the greatest of all time.

 

Yes, that's a good point. And those knowledgeable ones who tout him as the best run the gamut -fighters who fought him, came later, or preceded him, trainers, writers, newsmen, fans, analysts, historians, East Side Boxing classic forum (well, the ones who are right), ring card girls, the chairs at Madison Square Garden...

 

Nope.

Robinson was reliant on speed and reflexes just like Ali -and the men he fought were more active and faster than those that Ali faced as he aged. Normally speaking, it is a bigger deal to fight at an advanced age in the lower weights than HWs.

--And besides that, what was Robinson doing when he was 38? He was looking at another 51 more fights -almost matching Ali's total fights after Robinson turned 38 years old.

 

Robinson can't he was stopped against Maxim. Bernard Hopkins can say that though, Mayweather can say that.

 

Please read the post in full before contradicting it.

If you look closely at those names I listed, you would see that they are the consensus picks for the top 10 or 12 best fighters who ever lived. Hopkins and Mayweather aren't even close.

 

I think Monzon may be the highest ranked of the 'never stopped' brigade, bar your Robinson example.

 

Yes,and monzon truely was truely never stopped in 101 fights....
Robbie was legitimately stopped close to his prime,although it was well above his natural weight.....
Alis stoppage was when shot...

 

Ali probably had the start of Parkinsons when he was fighting Holmes. So at 38 or whatever age - he was in no right condition to be still fighting - his performance proves this to be so whatever other excuses he made - v Berbick his reflexes were shot but lucky Berbick was not world class to humiliate Ali- overrated like many of the 80s heavies. Ali couldn't even do a simple hand to nose test. Co-ordination gone, reflexes shot - Not good for a boxer haha.

 

My problem with Robinson being number 1 is simply he avoided the best P4P competition of his day in worse way than RJJ or Mayweather today. Look at the quality of fighters he avoided:

Charles Burley - best Welterweight other than SRR and the best Welter of all time wanted no part of the fight. One of P4P second best of his era avoided could be argued to be better than SRR himself. He did beat Moore who beat Maxim who beat SRR

Cocoa Kid - colored Welterweight champ when Robinson was coming up. Beat Holman Williams

Holman Williams - arguably the best Welter-Middle of the period, beat Burley

Lloyd Marshall - beat Lamotta in '44, so why does SRR keep fighting Lamotta and avoiding the man that beat him? That would be like Mayweather fighting Judah 7 times after Cotto beat him. Marshall has an excellent resume aside from Lamotta ofcourse including Ezzard Charles, Chase and Burley

Moore - Again 1 of the best from 160-175. Beat Maxim after SRR was stopped, if SRR was serious about being the best at 175 he would have fought Moore. He did actually make Moore 1 dirisory offer that Moore turned down, more should have been done to make the fight with Moore though.

Charles - always a division above but was P4P top2 would have been The Super Fight.

 

...I know but Robinson was shot and still not being stopped when he was about 45 and going solid rounds with top men like Archer. Hopkins is doing this and all credit to him but he hasn't got about 200 fights behind him.

 

There aren't many of them who are truly great but never stopped. Monzon is interesting but I'd disagree. Barney Ross was never stopped in 74 fights. Duilio Loi -who had 126 fights -was never stopped either.

 

Honestly, you strain gnats and swallow camels. Your standard for Robinson is higher than it is for others, and the two ludicrous examples you offer only prove it.

 

What the standard of expecting him to fight the best in his weight class? 6 of the top P4P fighters were avoided and SRR shared weight classes with these men. The list that RJJ and Mayweather supposedly avoided is less and at least those 2 fought the best of their eras in some of the weight classes Robinson did not. Lets compare:

RJJ: 160 RJJ fought the best middleweight of the next 12 years in BHOPs, at 168 he fought the best fighter from 160-168 in the past 4 years in Toney. At 175 fought everyone bar Darius and that 1 didnt happen for various reasons

Mayweather: 130 - fought the best, 135 - fought the best 140 - fought the best albeit at 147, 147 - fought 2 linear champs avoided 2 of the best that werent particularly great, 154 - fought 1 of the top10 greatest fighters of the last 10 years

I rate Robinson above Mayweather and Jones but when it comes to avoiding fighters hes worse than both. Were talking about the best of the best here and you can't just give Robinson a pass for avoiding 6 fighters who were better than anyone he beat.

 

Yes,in robbies favour even when shot he was not stopped until he retired.
However,with hopkins who is in his fourties and still more than competitive at world class (same as moore.) ,does it make him a better fighter or just impressive longevity wise? I mean is hopkins better than ray leonard p4p (hell no.) just because he still wins at 40+?
Also,big george only got stopped once by ali and still fought into his late fourties against heavy hitting heavyweights,does that make him better than ali? I hope you get my drift fellas. Longevity doesnt always mean the better fighter,or hector camacho would be better than pernell whitaker....