Sugar Ray Robinson- A Great. But THE GREATEST????

Perhaps Power Puncher is right. Ray Robinson couldn't be the best ever, even had he fought Burley and co., because Robinson didn't fight Joe Louis.

 

Robinson was fighting at 160 on and off from 1942 onwards when he first fought Lamotta. He fought Lamotta all those times, why not mix with the best of the middleweights like Williams. Is it partly because Lamotta is 1 dimensional, predictable and easy to hit?

Robinson actually discussed fighting Moore and they met to discuss it after Moore beat Maxim

Charles is the 1 I listed that was certainly a stretch, there was always a 15lbs+ disparity, but Charles is 1 of the greatest of all times, the best from 160-175 of that era so it would have made for an amazing showdown

 

I think saying he ducked charles is going over the score, charles was fighting light heavy by what 1945 i thnk when robinson was a welter and by 50 when he moved to middle official charles was a heavy, thats akin to saying mayweather ducking calzaghe, eg rubbish

Moore and marshall again i both fell robinson shouldn't be critisied again for not fighting, they where much much bigger than robnson, just because he fought la motta in 44 doesn't mean he should be critized for not fighting people from a similar weight, they where far bigger than robinson, for example would you praise mayweather if he fought abrahams or would you say he was ducking pavlik:think

I would say gavilan was certainly as good as williams and Cocoa kid probably better, he should have been fought them sure cocoa kid espicially

I have no argument for burley, he should have fought him no doubt and it goes against him

 

Are you giving him credit for facing Gavilan --twice? Would you concede that Gavilan has a strong argument as the second best WW ever?

I am reluctant to go that far back to find the greatest fighter ever. Boxing was a different sport before ~1920. The records are murky, the newspaper decisions are not reliable, black fighters often threw fights to get fights, there were too many guys who really weren't anything but set-ups. Many fights from that era were the functional equivalents of today's tough man contest in terms of who the opponents were.

Handfuls of nothing? I would say that in reviewing Langford you have handfuls of sand. It requires too much speculation to be as valid as what you see in the 40s -which is probably the best decade ever for boxing.

That's fair, even if I gotta give it to Robinson with far less hesitation. Langford may have been the greatest ever. I just can't say for sure. I'd need to see more and go through his record to separate the wheat from the chaff, see?

PS/a little friendly encouragement... we should not refer to him as the tar baby. It was a racist nickname that is insulting. I prefer his other one ..."The Boston Terror".

 

Galivans a massive win, maybe the biggest, but he was on a bad run of form and many had Galivan winning the first. I doubt Galivan was seen as a formidable as Burley. Hard to judge if Galivan was as good as Chocolate, Burley, Williams, Marshall etc especially with his inconsistences I'd rank him below Burley, Williams, Marshall

 

Robinson looked like a matinee idol. Gavilan looked like his brother from the hills (The Hills Have Eyes).

 

I think that Gavilan and Robinson would have beaten Burley. That's about it though. I'd take Burley over Leonard, Duran, Hearns, and Mayweather among legions of others.

 

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Robinson is arguably the greatest and some say he was unbeatable but thats not true although everyone is allowed some off nights. Even at Welterweight he had some very hard, close fights.

 

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Lamotta wasn't so easy to hit for Holman Williams. 1946. Lamotta beat him and he beat him after he had lost to Robinson 4 out of 5 times.

What say you now?

 

What follows is an old post of mine:

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All in all I agree with what you say. On a sidenote, though, I just have to say that if you consider that Ali was stopped by Holmes the same would be true for SRR against Maxim. Both quit between rounds.