Sugar Ray Robinson- A Great. But THE GREATEST????

Charles - Agreed Charles is a massive stretch, but it would be a monumental superfight

Moore - Robinson got round the table with Moore to discuss the fight, after Moore-Maxim but made a lowball offer

Williams - fought as a Welterweight up until 1942 so definately avoided, as mentioned 1942 onwards Robinson himself would fight at Middle so clearly they were fighting in the same divisions

Marshall - Again Robinson was campaigning in the middleweight division 1942 onwards, so why not fight the best fighters there? And giving up weight isnt unique to Robinson, Greb gave up plenty of weight, Mayweather often gave up 10-20lbs on fight night

Burley - blatant duck

Cocoa Kid - blatant duck

 

After the duet with Robinson, the next 4 out of 5 losses were disputable. You had officials suspended and the winner's own hometown fans booing one decision.

Gavilan really hit his stride although unfortunately it was right around the time Robinson hit his ...

 

I don't see it that way. The heat stopped Sugar Ray. If Ray fought Maxim at the Garden, he'd have won and everyone knows it. Age stopped Ali. Remember that Robinson was fighting at 44 and was not stopped.

 

Williams was 34 and way past prime against Lamotta in 1946, in fact he didnt have another big win after this loss and would retire 2 years later. It doesnt mean Lamotta isnt easy to hit it just means Lamottas is a touch relentless pressure fighter but prime for prime Williams is the better boxer

 

Fristly that is due to the day before weigh in not like when Ray fought and who did Mayweather fight 20lbs bigger then him who was anywhere near as good as a prime Marshall? An old De la Hoya? The comparison is not valid and Ray fought much better fighters then Maywather who has probably ducked even more fighters then Robinson.

 

You're really fast and loose with the facts.

Moore and Charles vs. SRR do not require serious discussion.

Williams lost to that "one-dimensional, easy to hit" Lamotta.

Cocoa Kid turned pro in 1929! By 1946, Cocoa Kid was losing almost as much as he was winning. He was done by 1948.

Lloyd Marshall? Ridiculous. He was a light heavy. He fought at or under the MW limit about 5 times since Robinson turned pro. That's 5 times out of 100 fights.

Real evidence points to this: Robinson ducked one fighter. Burley. Let's not engage in history revisionism any longer, okay?

 

Burley and Cocoa Kid, agreed he ducked them, no arguments

Williams as you say went to middle in 42, robinson wasn't fighting at welter till about 41 i think when he fought zivic, was certainly no star at this point and as has been said before there was no offer made for the fight to happen, holman was the more established fighter at the time so how about i turn that on its head and say he ducked robinson. I don't think he did nor do i think robinson ducked him though

Yes robinson fought around middle occasionally when outweighed a lot, he should be praised for this, not called into question ducking other fighters when he was not campaining reguarly at the weight, would you say jones ducked lewis after he fought ruiz, i'm sure not he had no obligation to fight him much like robinson didn't moore or marshall and they where massve at middle and where not there long

 

Nothing really to start a discussion about, but I see the heat as something you have to factor in. A marathon runner quitting can't be excused because of heat. Ali was stopped by age, Parkinson, all the **** he had been popping to loose weight (was it Benzendrine?) and Holmes. Both counts as stoppages in my book. But its' only a sidenote. I don't want to divert the discussion.

 

It's straining gnats, McGrain. Seriously. "He shoulda done this, he shoulda done that." The guy was 128-1 just out of his 20s. Robinson ducked Burley, but let's not get stupid here and make or affirm unfounded accusations fast and loose like PP.

 

YEs it is because of day before weigh ins and losing water weight, but the end result is fighting a bigger fighter. Mayweather fought:

Corrales - weighed 147-155 in his fights at 130-135, was considered P4P top 10 before Floyd
Castillo - weighed 155ish for most of his lightweight title fights
Gatti - weighed 155-160 for his 140lb fights
Delahoya - usually adds 10-15lbs of water after weigh in.

Mayweather has avoided fighters (although what role politics with the likes of Arrum and Showtime played in this is up for debate) but its hilarious when people claim SRR faced everyone he certainly didnt

 

Based on footage I wouldn't say Robinson is the best I've seen, but then again we haven't even seen the best of him and likely never will. I rate him highest, but there could an argument to have him as low as #4.

But again, based on the MW footage we have of him, anyone saying he was the best they've ever seen on film(provided they never actually did see him at his best at WW) is just going with the flow IMO.