Sugar Ray Robinson - Greatest fighter that ever lived (2006)

It's a real stretch to honestly compare Robinson to Greb and place Greb second. Monte Cox seems reluctant to do any kind of in depth comparison between the two and the one time he does, Greb seems to get the better of it. He concedes that Robinson's record is less than Greb's. But then he tries to make a comparison with Ray Leonard as if that propels Robinson over the top:

"One should also consider that Robinson’s activity level made him sharper and more experienced than modern fighters," he writes, "For example in 1946 the year he won the welterweight title Sugar Ray fought 16 times. In 1947 he fought 10 times. In 1949 he fought 13 times. In 1950 he fought 19 times. The other “Sugar Ray” Leonard only fought 40 pro fights in his entire career."

--Greb fought 45 times in one year -and went 45-0, defeating myriad styles along the way. So much for that.

Cox's second criteria seems to be "Ability." Cox is understandably awed by Robinson's fighting prowess but mistakes it for transcental greatness. Why would he care more for fighting ability than he did for who and what the fighter actually defeated? Where does he rank Floyd Mayweather? Robinson avoided fighters, many would say he ducked them. Who'd Greb duck? I don't want to go and bring up my own work that presents Greb as #1 but "The God War" has Greb, the middleweight champion of the world facing the feared light heavyweight Kid Norfolk because he felt like it and for the hell of it.

I don't see Sugar Ray ever considering doing that.

There is just too much in Greb's favor --outlandish things that will never be repeated in the future.

Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest fighter anyone alive has ever seen. Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest fighter of the last 80 years.

That suffices. That's enough.

 

I agree with stonehands. A while ago I used to be one of the SRR #1 crew, but reading up on Greb and Langford and watching Armstrong has really changed my mind. The only thing Robinson truly excelled over Greb at is power. Isn't it ironic that a fighter so great was one of the weaker hitters among all time greats?

 

It counts against him being top dog.

 

As I learn more and more about the history of boxing it seems that SRR's place as the #1 ATG gets weaker. He's the conventional answer sure, but Greb and a few others can be put above him.

 

The way things are structured in the sport now, this is almost incomprehensible to me. :shock:

 

who are these "few others"? I'm interested

 

Probably Armstrong, Langford, Fitzsimmons, Pep and Valuev.

 

Valuev?? the Russian heavyweight?

 

This is going to come down to the footage.

 

S, You are correct i believe in saying that ray robinson is the greatest fighter
in the past 80 or so years. There is no doubt of that,except for the possible
exception of Henry Armstrong,in his prime, and Joe Louis must enter the picture as well. We must define " greatest fighter', before making a final choice. If we mean the best all around fighter, there is no doubt my choice would be Ray Robinson. He had it all, and I was fortunate to see Ray at his very best...Awesome to behold was Robinson..
But to me "greatest fighter ",should mean what fighter over the long haul ,
had a record of accomplishment against great HOFamers,who outweighed
the fighter ,many pounds and were whipped by this smaller man,time and again. And the man was of course the truly astounding Harry Greb.
Greb,a middleweight fought and beat great fighters,MUCH heavier than himself,as Gene Tunney, Tommy Gibbons. Jack Dillon, Tommy Loughran,
Billy Miske, Maxie Rosenbloom, Battling Levinsky, Mickey Walker,Gunboat Smith, Bill Brennan,and others,some who outweighed Harry Greb,10-50 pounds over a THREE HUNDRED BOUT career. Greb never ducked ANYONE,
and beat EVERYONE, until wear and the strain of 300 bouts ,caused him to retire. And as we now know harry greb was for many years was fighting
with only ONE EYE,as a result of a fight with the 15 pound heavier toughie Kid Norfolk...Ducked no one, fought and BEAT everyone...
Ray Robinson ,more beautiful to behold,aside from Jake LaMotta, and the
LIGHT punching Joey Maxim, never tackled the BIG BOYS, such as Charley Burley, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Harold Johnson,because
Ray Robinson, great as he was knew his limitations. This why Ray chose Joey
Maxim,though a LT.Heavy,was a weak puncher. He was no Harry Greb who because of his great ruggedness, stamina,non-stop offense, and the ability
to fly away from danger,when required to do so. And Greb never gave his opponents the ball as he was always on the attack.
Finally,i judge these two great fighters ability this way-
I believe Harry Greb,would certainly lick everyone of Ray Robinson's opponents, hands down.
i also believe that ray Robinson would be whipped by many of Harry Greb's
Larger opponents,who Harry took on and whipped, many times...
Two great fighters, but Harry Greb was unlike any other IMO....

 

53 fights and never lost a UD.

 

One of these names sticks out like a sore thumb. Who the **** is Langford? :huh

As a side note, after much thought, I have come to the conclusion that Boxed Ears almost single-handedly caused the "noob" epidemic on the Classic forum. This used to be a place where intelligent, wordly, and cultured posters could calmly and maturely discuss the history books, but now it's swarmed with "noobs"...such as myself. You had to come and bring your nonsense over here, didn't you, B? You had to lighten the tone. Just had to do that, yeah?

 

Yep. Sugar Nicky V is of course my #1