Sugar Ray Robinson v Roy Jones @ 168

Ability to take a punch? You mean the one he showed when he was dropped by Mitsos Grispos 1-14-3? As for getting dropped by Castellani, that's as bad as getting dropped by Sven Ottke (something people hold against Mundine). Dropped by non-puncher LaMotta.
Plus innumerable times when Robinson was hurt, like I said. He was way too easy to be hurt or staggered.
That's really great ability to take a punch.
As for speed, Robinson's speed at 160 was never anything special. Even at welterweight there were several fighters faster than him.

 

Because Robinson didn't face any great punchers, that's why he was stopped only once. Levine and Graziano are the hardest-hitting fighters he met in his career, both dropped him. There are more than plenty of facts that leave us doubting his ability to withstand Jones' punching power at 160 and 168, and there are zero facts that leave us doubting Jones' same ability at 160 or 168. Jones would be by far the greatest puncher Robinson faced in his career, while Jones faced bigger punchers than Robinson and didn't show no signs of being hurt (until he was old and far past his prime).

 

The hell he didn't.

While a prime Jones was outclassed by Montell Griffin, who wasn't even remotely in Robinson's league, and please don't argue that he was, because it'l be even more embarrasing than the time you called Shavers a journeyman.

Because he was dropped a few times in 200 pro fights? Big f----ng deal. Anyone who has 200 career bouts is occassionaly going to get hurt, staggered, cut, dropped whatever. In 200 fights, Robinson was only TKO'd once by an all time great light heavyweight, when he was past his prime, and like I said, it was in the 14th round. Jones, on the otherhand fought only 56 times in his career, and was stopped on two occassions. Once came in the 2nd round, while the other came in the 9th. Both losses came against guys who were not exactly all time great material as Joey Maxim was who stopped Jones. You pointed out that Roy was past his prime, and I agree that he was, but you make no comcession for the fact that Ray was past his against Maxim. As usual you're inonsistant in your debating methods.

" By far " is a rather strong expression, and if power is Jones main asset in this fight, then I find it rather minescule compared to Robinson's all time great abilty as probably the best ring technician in history, wouldn't you think?

 

Jones outclassed by Griffin? Where did see such fight? Marty Servo, Jose Basora, Georgie Abrams, Henry Brimm were light years behind of Jones, which didn't stop them from giving Sugar very tough close fights.

Guys with rock solid chins didn't get dropped here and there, including by non-punchers. Robinson's chin could be dented, a couple of times only lack of finishing abilities of his opponents allowed him to survive. Jones' punching power and finishing abilities at 160 and 168 were top notch, much better than anyone's Robinson faced. It's not like Ray couldn't be outboxed either, Tommy Bell and Bernard Docusen outboxed him early, although they faded as the fight went on.

By far suits Jones well, as he was a fearsome puncher at both 160 and 168, Top 3 hardest-hitter at 168 and at least a Top 10 hardest hitter at 160. The hardest hitter Robinson faced at middleweight was a small natural 154-pounder Rocky Graziano.
As for "best ring technician in history", you should watch more Robinson's fights, if you can get a hold of his 1940's fights you will see him relying a lot on his natural abilities (footwork, handspeed, angles) than on technical correctness.

 

Senya, which of Robinson's fights from the 1940s do you have?

 

I only have highlights, same as everyone else.
It was especially apparent in the amateurs (Valentine, Nonella, Ancona), but it can be seen in his pro bouts as well.
1946-02-05 Tony Riccio
1946-02-27 Cliff Beckett
1946-03-04 Sammy Angott
1947-05-16 Georgie Abrams
1949-06-07 Freddy Flores

 

Robinson for sure just if would be on points on KO I think if he ran Roy could survive but with his very poor punch resistance who knows

 

Roy all the way. Ray would take his licks but he hasn't go much for Roy at 168.

 

very hard fight. robinson @ middleweight wasn't really impressive.

i would give roy a UD.

 

Lurch,
he weighed 150lbs against Levine, not exactly a bonafide middleweight

In answer to this thread, I'd go with Jones at 168 too, a bridge too far perhaps

 

But not kod ,as was Jones ,TWICE.

 

Is that not a testament to Robinson' recuperative powers, when once hurt he could turn the fight on its head.

How long did it take Roy to recuperate against Tarver II & G Johnson about 10 - 20 minutes each time, it kinda puts that 9-10 seconds (against Levine) into perspective doesnt it?


What is a great shame with regards to RJJ, is that your blind fascination with him prevents anyone else being able to indulge in the vast talents that Jones had