Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Charley Burley

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by bman100, Aug 17, 2010.


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  1. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's not a fight I'd bet much on either way...
     
    Stonehands89, Aug 18, 2010
    Stonehands89, Aug 18, 2010
    #31
  2. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    fair enough. but i beleive Ray ducked Burley because he was a threat, not monetary reasons as it was made to look like. Ray also wanted no part of Cocoa Kid. These are the only two fighters (to my knowledge) that Ray did not want to fight. That speaks volumes to me, it says that Ray had a large chance to be beaten by these guys. and its more than likely that hed have been beaten once at least out of three times.
     
    bman100, Aug 18, 2010
    bman100, Aug 18, 2010
    #32
  3. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yep, I know.

    Burley seemed to understand Ray's intentions.
     
    Stonehands89, Aug 18, 2010
    Stonehands89, Aug 18, 2010
    #33
  4. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    You mean he wouldnt accept fighting him in an exhibition, which didnt pay anything like enough to fight a top contender. Its like expecting Mayweather to fight Cotto for a charity event

    Burley was a threat though, but if Robinson could make as much money fighting lesser talents, why bother?
     
    PowerPuncher, Aug 18, 2010
    PowerPuncher, Aug 18, 2010
    #34
  5. Godfather

    Godfather I put the G in God Full Member

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    Anyone know of a good book on Burley?
     
    Godfather, Aug 18, 2010
    Godfather, Aug 18, 2010
    #35
  6. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Im sure ive heard that the Kid wanted a fight, a real fight(???) I could be wrong. Ray had him as a sparring partner and he dropped a prime WW Robinson in a sparring session, perhaps he knew Robinson's tricks and Ray was afraid to fight him because of that. I dont know of any other stories where Robinson was dropped in sparring especially in his prime.

    But true that Ray didnt have to fight Burley as he was not champion. still Burley offered more money than any other guy out there for one fight, or at least more than most were offering. Ray accepted, then asked for more, dunno if Burley accepted but Ray would have had a nice handful from a fight becasue Charley was offering good money.

    Ray was not getting as much money fighting as most people beleive, he confirms that in a 1950 article he did for LIFE magazine. So to fight Burley would have been a good move if he thought he could beat him. During that time guys like Graziano were making more than him, as crazy as that sounds, its true and that is why Ray fought so often. in 1949, he drew only two fights with $100,000 gates. just two. So with lesser guys he would not have made as much money, Burley would have been good money. he was gien the choice of a high career payday and still rejected it.

    Ray also wanted no part of Bernard Docusen when Bernie became #1 contender, or so his daughter claims. Robinson had a tough fight with him the first time and refused a second bout.
     
    bman100, Aug 18, 2010
    bman100, Aug 18, 2010
    #36
  7. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    No doubt Robinson was the primadonna Mayweatheresque fighter of his time, take the hard fights only if they substancially compensate you financially. He would always demand more money at the negotiating table and disliked boxing. Espcially after he killed a man in the ring, what makes that death even more earry was the fact he had premonition and decided to pull out of the fight, was persuaded to fight anyway and his opponent did indeed die. Freaky huh?

    The situation with Cocoa Kid was a trick pulled on Sugar though. Robinson was signed to fight in an exhibition match up and they pulled Cocoa on him. If there was good money on the table I have no doubt Ray would have fought him but black plus black rarely drew flies in those days
     
    PowerPuncher, Aug 18, 2010
    PowerPuncher, Aug 18, 2010
    #37
  8. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    indeed, he used to persuade promoters that he would fight for them with just a "gentleman's agreement" and then run out on them. Or he'd get alibis that he had the flu or myositis of the shoulder... and not show up in the ring.

    The fight with Cocoa Kid was an exhibition, he was supposed to fight someone else and the other guy pulled out. the guys brought Cocoa Kid in and Ray wated out because the contract stated he was to fight this other guy. he got in big trouble for it for some reason though, i doubt anyone else would have done anything differently especially when it ocmes to gus like Cocoa KId.
     
    bman100, Aug 18, 2010
    bman100, Aug 18, 2010
    #38
  9. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not true,one of the greatest action fighters I have EVER seen ,Beau Jack sold out MSG , Seven times in one year...The top bkack fighters most often drew great crowds \Louis, Robinson,Beau Jack, Ike Williams , so there were quite a few great black attractions...I saw them all except
    Joe Louis...Didn't have the dough to see him...
     
    burt bienstock, Aug 18, 2010
    burt bienstock, Aug 18, 2010
    #39
  10. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    burt, if you dont mind me asking how much did it cost to watch robinson and how much would it hae cost to see Louis?
     
    bman100, Aug 18, 2010
    bman100, Aug 18, 2010
    #40
  11. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    bman,one of the things about all the boxing events I saw during the "second golden age ", I regret now is NOT saving my admission ticket stubs...We threw it away foolishly, without thought of it's historical significance in future years...Out of all the great cards I saw, I only SAVED one ticket stub..It was the Ray Robinson vs Randy Turpin match
    Sept 12,1951 at the old defunct Polo Grounds...We paid $15.00 a ticket
    for that historic event...But the memories I have,was worth the price..
    I recall going to the old MSG where I believe the price was $1.50 for the balcony...Sometimes the side balcony just above the ring...I never saw Joe Louis in the late 1930s as I was too nyoung, and my dad couldn't
    afford the ticket prices, but in the 1940s , I saw all the top heavyweights
    of the time in MSG..A partial list...Lou Nova, Tami Mauriello, Jimmy Bivins,
    Lee Oma, Lee Savold, Joe Baksi, Melio Bettina, Bruce Woodcock of England, Gus Lesnevich, Tommy Gomez, Jersey Joe Walcott,and so many
    smaller divisions...Al this for about $1.50- $2.50...But the stub I should
    have saved was the Ali-Frazier boutMarch 8, 1971 at MSG ticket stub..
    That amazing evening is etched in my mind forever !!!b.b.
     
    burt bienstock, Aug 18, 2010
    burt bienstock, Aug 18, 2010
    #41
  12. bman100

    bman100 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    wow lotta history there, the atmosphere for that Ali-Frazaier bout is tangible almost if you watch the pre-fight, introductions on the film etc. Then when it starts, its really intense, this was from the first time i saw it long ago. but to have been there, what a fight, seeing Ali live, musta been great, when Ali was knocked out the place musta erupted...
     
    bman100, Aug 18, 2010
    bman100, Aug 18, 2010
    #42
  13. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    My first inclination would be to try borrowing these two books through an inter library loan first to screen them, then decide on whether or not to make a purchase decision. Combine these biographies, and little additional reading will be necessary for you to reach 1000 pages of research on this fabled boxing deity.




    Amazon link to
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    This content is protected
    " by Harry Ottey. 364 Pages. Hardcover or paperback. Released November 16, 2006.
    This content is protected
    This content is protected





    Amazon link to "
    This content is protected
    ," by Allen S. Rosenfeld. 608 pages. Hardcover or paperback. Released February 13, 2007.
    This content is protected
     
    Duodenum, Aug 18, 2010
    Duodenum, Aug 18, 2010
    #43
  14. Godfather

    Godfather I put the G in God Full Member

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    Cheers mate. Much appreciated :thumbsup
     
    Godfather, Aug 19, 2010
    Godfather, Aug 19, 2010
    #44
  15. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Burley was no Servo or Castellani, that's for sure.
     
    El Bujia, Aug 19, 2010
    El Bujia, Aug 19, 2010
    #45
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