Sugar Ray robinson vs Jim Corbett

Haha, yeah they'd think the world is coming to an end or some ****, that some ****d up stylish marsian has come to kill them all. haha

 

That's what it would look like IMO. Genuinely. Imagine if Roy Jones turned up instead He'd be tried for witchcraft or something (probably got my dates well wrong probably but **** it, it's for the purpose of a, ahem, 'gag')

 

Robinson>Jones

But i know what you mean in terms of how amazing the flash and outrageous ring moves were, of Jones.

 

you understand my point completely :good

Top man Teeto, I'm off for a :rasta

 

Good man.

 

You ****ing degenerates, haha.

 

You are so right.

Reflexes were invented in 1923. The idea of hitting somebody with a fist came two years later.

 

Corbett wins this.

 

:good

 

Robinson versus Maxim--I can't agree with the usual take on this. There have been plenty of hot weather fights in which neither man collapsed. I think this is just a bad excuse.

There is a color film of this fight on youtube. The color film shows the end of the fight clearly in a way the black and white film does not. Late in the 13th round Robinson is boxing pretty well. His coordination seems good. He backs off from Maxim so his back is to the ropes and to the camera. Maxim hits him with a right uppercut and Robinson responds with a flurry, looking still coordinated and together. He throws three punches when Maxim steps in and lands an inside right uppercut. Robinson's legs go slack, his hands fall to his side. He has been effectively knocked out. Robinson's stumbles helplessly about the ring while Maxim tries for the kill but the bell rings. Robinson has to be all but carried to his corner. He does not come out for the 14th.

I never heard anyone claim it was heat that got Jeffries in the blazing Reno sun of July 4, 1910. Robinson might have been worn down and weary, so was Jeffries and so was Cooney against Holmes or Moore against Marciano, but he was stopped, pure and simple. That is how I read the film.

 

There is also a film of the Robinson-Tiger Jones fight on youtube. It is interesting to watch Jones with his gloves fairly low march right through Robinson. Watch that film. Jones was only an average middleweight. I think it raises a few questions about Robinson.

One judge scored that fight a shutout for Jones.

 

As for Corbett-Robinson, Robinson never beat any top fighter who was above 160. It is a real leap in the dark to say he beats Corbett. He was more skilled, but Corbett was a natural 184 pounds. Robinson at his peak--LaMotta VI to Maxim--at middle weighed 155 to 157. Let's be real here. Robinson was knocked out by the powder-puff punching Maxim who went 173. Now he is going to beat the much bigger and harder-hitting Corbett? Corbett by ko.

 

Corbett UD. He's too big, and just as quick as Robinson was. Robinson's best stuff was at welter. Asking him to beat a 185-190 pound skilled boxer with speed is asking too much.

 

he wasn't as quick as ray robinson. and asking that of sugar ray robinson is probably not asking much at all

 

That's quite a misleading statement.

From three different accounts (the point of view of a doctor, ringside viewer and a historian):

"Then Robinson undertook his greatest ring challenge. At Yankee Stadium on June 23, 1952, he sought to wrest the light-heavyweight championship from Joey Maxim. A victory would give him a title in his third weight division at a time when the phrase “world champion” really meant something. Only Henry Armstrong and Bob Fitzsimmons had accomplished that feat before.

Maxim was a shade younger than Robinson and, more significantly, outweighed him by fifteen pounds. Robinson was a 7-to-5 favorite because of his extraordinary skills. But fighting for the 175-pound championship was a tremendous reach for a fighter who’d begun his career at 135 pounds.

“How are your legs?” Robinson was asked several days before the bout.

“I hope they’re all right,” he answered. “This would sure be a bad time for them to go wrong.”

The temperature in the ring on fight night was 104 degrees. It was the hottest June 25th in the history of New York. “A miasma of cigarette smoke hung over the ringside seats on the baseball diamond,” A. J. Liebling wrote. “There was no breeze to dispel it, and the American flags on the four posts at the corners of the ring drooped straight down.”

“I thought I was being roasted to death,” referee Ruby Goldstein said afterward.

The first ten rounds were slow-paced, with Robinson piling up a lead on the scorecards. Later, he recalled, “Maxim was an easy target. In the seventh, I stunned him with a right hand to the jaw. But the heat was beginning to get to me. After the ninth, I plopped on my stool. ‘I don’t know what’s the matter,’ I said. ‘I’m getting sleepy.’ That is the last memory I have of anything that happened that night.”

At the end of round ten, Goldstein collapsed from the heat and was replaced by Ray Miller. The new third man in the ring broke clinches more quickly than his predecessor and the pace of the fight quickened a bit.

“In the eleventh round,” Dave Anderson recounted in the New York Times, “Robinson jolted Maxim with another right hand to the jaw. But when the bell rang, he wandered aimlessly toward a neutral corner.”

In round twelve, Robinson forced himself onto the attack again, scoring repeatedly but at the expense of the little strength left in his reserve. Then he hit the proverbial wall.

“When Robinson came out for the thirteenth,” Liebling wrote, “he walked as if he had the gout in both feet and dreaded putting them down. When he punched, which was infrequently, he was as late and wild as an amateur; and when he wasn’t punching, his arms hung at his sides. Maxim, at first apparently unable to believe his good fortune, began after a period of ratiocination to hit after him. Then Robinson, the almost flawless boxer, the epitome of ring grace, swung wildly like a child, missed his man completely, and fell on his face.”

Robinson rose and finished the round. When it ended, he hung onto the ropes in a neutral corner. His cornermen dragged him to his stool, held smelling salts beneath his nose, and pressed ice against the back of his neck.

A commission doctor asked Robinson if he could stand up. The two judges had him leading Maxim 10-3 and 9-3-1 in rounds. The composite score of the two referees had him ahead 7-4-3. In other words, under the round scoring system then in effect in New York, all he had to do was finish the fight to win.

Robinson shook his head. He was physically unable to rise from his stool.

The bell rang. Maxim was declared the winner by knockout at the start of the fourteenth round.

After the fight, Robinson suffered from delirium in his dressing room. His body was covered with blisters and he had lost twelve pounds. He refused to go to the hospital and was taken to his mother’s home."

http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-hauser/sugar-ray-robinson-revisited--part-two

"If he does not restore his fluid loss and enters the ring dehydrated, he may be courting the same disaster that ended the last big money-making light heavyweight championship in New York. It happened three years ago this week, when Sugar Ray Robinson fought Joey Maxim.

Dr. Ira McCown of the State Athletic Commission recalls, "The temperature that day was 94�. The humidity was 90%. That evening was so still and quiet you couldn't even see the flags waving in the breeze—because there was no breeze.

"We had a mass of 45,000 spectators on hand, which increased the heat. At ringside we also had an added factor of about 100 klieg lights overhead. That brought the temperature—it was proven—to 103� at the edge of the ring. Under the lights, we feel undoubtedly, it was nearer 130."

All day long Robinson had taken no fluids. He tried to sleep, but couldn't. He got up about 8 o'clock and Dr. Vincent Nardiello tried to give him something to drink. "I wanted to give him a big glass of lemonade with plenty of sugar. I finally gave him iced tea with plenty of sugar, but he refused to take it. 'Doctor,' he said, 'I've been fighting for 14 years. I never took any fluids before a fight.'

"I said, 'Son, this is a tough night. This is a real hot night. You have got to have fluids.' He didn't take a thing, and that's what licked him. He was absolutely dehydrated."

Robinson set a very fast pace, but he was already well dried out. Moreover, the humidity was so high that whatever more he sweated didn't evaporate to keep him cool.

"The first symptom that we noticed," Dr. McCown remembers, "was about the fourth round—and, mark you, the managers and trainers at ringside said, 'Oh Doc, he's in fine shape. Do you see how he is feinting Maxim for the kill?' Robinson was running around the ropes. I think it was the fifth he went to the wrong corner—well, he went the wrong way, but in the 11th he absolutely went to the wrong corner.

"At the 11th round Dr. Schiff [a ring physician] and I went to his corner. Robinson was very glassy-eyed. His body was wet. He was hot. He didn't know where he was. He was anxious to continue, but he was in no condition. He was absolutely out, physically out.

"When we got him back we had to literally carry him back to his dressing room. I have never seen such a state of cerebral excitation. He didn't know where he was. He was cursing—anybody would do that when he gets in that state. It was a very depressing thing to see."

Robinson was suffering from heat exhaustion. He was dried out to begin with. He became further exhausted because he literally lost three to four quarts of fluid right in the ring, and it wasn't being replaced. Robinson set a very fast pace, but he was already well dried out. Moreover, the humidity was so high that whatever more he sweated didn't evaporate to keep him cool.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...22/2/index.htm

Inside the ring, under the lights, where the temperature was 104�, both men kept lighting in their respective styles. They sprayed sweat, but neither seemed un-duly weakened. Robinson took the first 11 rounds with ease. In The New York Times next day Arthur Daley reported, "The middleweight king was truly superb. His combination punches rocked Maxim, and raked him to jaw and body. He hooked and he crossed and he jabbed and he delivered uppercuts. In the seventh Maxim was almost on the verge of a knockout and required smelling salts in his corner." In the same paper James P. Dawson wrote, "Fighting out of a crouch, ignoring a weight handicap of pretty close to twenty pounds, Robinson blazed through the rounds, punching Maxim almost at will."

The fight took a surprising turn at the end of the 10th round, but it did not concern either fighter. Ruby Goldstein, the referee, suddenly caved in. His glistening face turned a horrid gray and. at the bell ending the round, he signaled that he could not continue. The heat had become too much for him. Ray Miller took over at the beginning of the 11th.

Then, not quite so suddenly, but plain for the excited crowd to see, the heat began eating into Sugar Rays reserves. The crowd yelled frantically for him to slow down, to coast along to the end and earn one of the easiest victories of his career. But Robinson continued to dance—on legs that were turning to rubber. Maxim took the 12th round, his first so far, and even began to look like the original figment of Freddie Mills' imagination (and mine). In the 13th Robinson's dance turned to a stagger. He lashed Out awkwardly, missed grotesquely and fell flat on his face. Then he pulled himself up and reeled round the ring. Maxim stared at him, flat-footed, nonplussed, possibly suspecting a trick. No wonder. Nothing in Maxim's career had prepared him to deal with this unprecedented opportunity. As the bell rang at the end of the 13th Robinson stumbled to a neutral corner. He had to be helped over to his stool. His head drooped. Massage and smelling sails failed to revive him. and he was unable to come out for the 14th. The doctor later pronounced it a "heat Stroke."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...88/2/index.htm

Here's what Joe Louis had to say:

"They should have stopped it after the 11th," said Joe Louis, emerging from Robinson's dressing room. "Robinson looked like a dead man."