Sugar Ray robinson vs Jim Corbett

How do you account for Robinson dragging Dr Vincent Nardiello into the shower with him back in the dressing room?
Do you think he was off his head from Maxim's punches?

 

The heat is no excuse for Robinson's loss, although almost everyone seems to want it to be.

He couldn't find a way to beat Maxim in that heat, and if he did know a way he got his strategy wrong.
If it was that hot surely Maxim could've passed out if he'd fought foolishly too. But he didn't, even with Robinson outboxing him most of the rounds.

Being able to beat a man is being able to beat him under the conditions that present themselves. In rain or in shine. There's was no foul play afoot, just the weather. Robinson failed to adapt his strategy despite the obvious heat, probably because Maxim was too just too good for Robinson so that a "plan B" was just not possible.
If Robinson had been in the ring with a welterweight that night he wouldn't have let "the heat" beat him.
It was Joey Maxim that beat him.
Fights take place in varying conditions, weathers and temperatures, not in abstract vacuums. Experienced fighters know this and we shouldn't make excuses.

 

Robinson was not well-prepared enough to deal with circumstances he was about to fight under. He did not fight any differently against Maxim than he would against most of his opponents in my view but it was simply not the kind of a style you could fight with under such extreme conditions. He had also gone into the fight dehydrated already, making it even worse for himself due to a silly tradition of not drinking water before a fight.

It is however quite ridiculous that some people are making it out to be as if Maxim had knocked Robinson on his back when this was not the case, not even close. The heat got to Robinson, and he was not the only one in the arena who suffered from it (even the referee had to be taken out), but credit should be given to Maxim for being as durable and smart as he was to outlast Robinson in the heat.

Still, I'm not sure how this is proof that Jim Corbett would knock Robinson out.

 

Robinson is supposedly dehydrated, although it is MAXIM who has to dry out to make weight. Jack Kearns said he knew that if Maxim continued to press the fight, Robinson would run out of gas and so planned his strategy of Maxim constantly coming forward and going to the body. I noticed on the film that Robinson struggles in the clinches which seems a foolish waste of energy. I think Maxim was too big and too strong and if it was cooler, Maxim probably would have set a faster pace and still worn Robinson out.

At the end of the fight, on the film, Maxim runs across the ring and jumps about. The Ring carried pictures of Maxim eating at his victory party and he was unmarked. One thing I noticed on the film, besides Maxim's body punches which apparently were not considered in the scoring but which sapped Robinson's strength, was how often Robinson missed Maxim. Robinson would throw multi-punch combinations but it appeared most of the punches missed as Maxim was able to dance out of the way.

I think Corbett, who is considerably bigger than Maxim, would also be able to move easily out of range after delivering his own punches. The fight with Corbett would be for at least 25 rounds, and the fact that Robinson admitted he was growing tired in the ninth against Maxim does not bode well for his chances over the longer distance.

 

I know that what is on the film happened. I don't know if this shower bit even happened or if it happened the way it was described. I consider the film of the fight to be the best evidence, not second-hand sources.

 

It wasn't due to Robinson making weight, it was due to him not drinking any liquids before the fight. A foolish move which he had to pay for.

When did Maxim ever set a fast pace in his fights? He was not exactly an aggressor looking to score the knockout but rather a technician who relied on outpointing his opposition with his jab.

Robinson wore himself out. Credit should be given to Maxim who didn't under the extreme circumstances they both fought in.

Maxim's pressure throughout the bout was minimal. He was looking to conserve his energy.

You're looking at one minute of highlights of a fight that went 13 rounds. Maxim was close to being knocked out in the 7th, and rocked in the 11th. This is a man who took Ezzard Charles's, Archie Moore's and Jersey Joe Walcott's best, yet he had to be given smelling salts for him to recover after the 7th round.

Perhaps, if it was 25 rounds.

 

The circumstances weren't all that unusual, though. Dan Daniel in the Ring when evaluating this fight scoffed about all the talk aboiut the heat, pointing out that it was as hot and perhaps hotter in Mississippi on July 8, 1889 when Sullivan beat Kilrain over a 75 round fight lasting over two hours. He also mentioned the Gans-Nelson fight in the hot of Reno, Nevada and a fight that went 42 rounds. It was hot when Baer ko'd Schmeling in 1933.

HOT? YES, BUT NOTHING NEW Ring Magazine, September, 1952, page 8--Dan Daniel

"Of course, little would have been written, little would have been uttered over the radio, about the extreme heat if the contest had gone the scheduled 15 rounds.
But Robinson collapsed, and was unable to come up for the fourteenth.
This developed a story the like of which cannot be found in the annals of boxing.
Comparatively little was written about the techniques of the contestants. Little attention was given to such lines of attack and defense as Maxim may have effected. No greater attention was paid to the Robinson manoeuvres. It was HOT.
Apparently, it occured to few of the reporters that it had been just as HOT for Maxim as it had been for Robinson.
Few of the ring litterati paid much attention to the important fact that Maxim had paced himself to meet the exigencies of the HEAT and that Ray had failed to."

 

When I was talking about Robinson missing, I was talking about the black-and-white film which covered many rounds of the fight.

The color film is interesting because you can actually see the finishing punch and Robinson going limp.

 

I can agree that only Robinson is to blame for not being prepared well-enough for the heat. I also give Maxim credit for being able to adjust to the situation by conserving his energy.

Robinson however was suffering from heat exhaustion and severe dehydration, as proven by ringside doctors in the earlier article I provided. He was in terrible condition at the end of the fight. It's not often that anything like this happens to a fighter.

Here are some of Maxim's own words:

"The heat favoured me tonight", he said. "I would be a real dummy not to know he was way ahead."

Maxim added: "I thought he was giving me the 'dead man' act in the 13th. I was not sure at all that he was all in although I noticed him starting to soften up in the 11th round."

Asked why he had not throw more punches at the dancing, jabbing Robinson, Maxim replied simply: "I just couldn't get at him."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...cQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1686,6316272&dq=maxim+robinson

 

Robinson's son and Wife ,who was allowed into his dressing room because of his condition both said he was delirious ,and vomiting,he could not retain food for two days and was ill for 6 months after the fight ,the morning after the bout he was covered with heat blisters.
But I suppose they made that all up.

 

His "son and his wife". Yeah, impartial witnesses like that wouldn't make anything up in an effort to alibi Robinson.

No, seriously, I dont doubt that all of that happened. But who cares ?
Robinson lost that fight. If anything he just wasn't tough enough, didn't prepared well enough, and crucially didn't adapt well enough (probably because there was no plan B for beating the opponent facing him).

It makes no odds whether he vomitted in the shower, saw Jesus, or had to lay down in a dark room for the next 3 years. He got beat. He couldn't go the distance. And he never fought a light-heavyweight again.

 

No bias from you here eh
Robinson never made an alibi about a defeat in his life he is on many film clips giving respect and praise to those who beat him.
Robinson wasnt tough enough?
Of course he wasnt ,he only ha200 figths losing nearly all of them ,well 19 actually most of them when past 35.,he went the route with the number one contender Archer at the age of 44.
Robinson being a softie was stopped loads of times ,all of once.
He retired directly after the Maxim fight ,so didnt fight anyone Lhvy or fly.
What a stupid post.

 

Maxim went to a party that night after the fight and the next day gave an interview saying he was quite willing to give Robinson a rematch in September, and also talked of other possible opponents. It was just as hot for Maxim as for Robinson. Both fighters were weighed that night after the fight according to James P Dawson of the New York Times. Robinson weighed 150 lbs after the fight. Maxim 166. The water loss was about seven pounds for each man, and this assumes Maxim did not go up in weight the afternoon of the fight after drying out to make weight.

Look, you buy all this spin. I don't. I don't care what excuses his wife, son, or personal physicians come up with. Robinson lost.

 

Like I said, I never doubted the truth of what he, his son and his wife said. I believe them.
But I think it's irrelevant.

Obviously I meant he wasn't tough enough on the night.
That cant really be disputed.

 

What's everyone bitching about ay? Maxim was not even a very good light heavy anyway.

Put Robinson in with Tunney, he gets spanked, Loughran, spanked, Charles, Moore, yadda yadda ya get the picture. Spinks would be ammusing.

And yes, Corbett pummels Robinson over a good few rounds.