Sugar Ray Robinson vs King Carlos Monzon (160lbs 15 rounds)

Not sure what I backed away from. I made many points.

I guess you were explaining to me that it was common to hand out draws in South America. I'm not entirely sure how that makes his record any better. You didn't give me any other example of South American fighters that drew multiple times against low-level opposition and I suppose you never will. After all, if this phenomenon was as widespread as you say then you would have many more examples. But I got no examples from you, just crickets.

My statement was not flippant and I gave a basis for why I believed it to be true. You made the same statement in reverse if I recall, you said that Robinson (the consensus pound-for-pound no.1) was not in the same league as Monzon the man who drew against a 1-4 opponent.

I never brought up Monzon killing his wife, it never even crossed my mind. I couldn't care less about that. Your willingness to invoke that is a sign of desperation and immaturity.

Robinson had a better jab than Monzon, Robinson was never outjabbed by any fighter in his entire career. Jabs are not just about reach they are about cadence and timing. Even if it were the case that Monzon had the superior jab (which it isn't) there would still be a number of tools at Ray's disposal. Also, there are many ways for a fighter to control distance (usually a combination of): jabbing, movement, feints, footwork etc. You're not really saying anything particularly intelligent by using the term: 'distance control'.

Robinson hit appreciably harder and they were about the same height. You're gonna have to do a lot better than 'bigger' and 'stronger'. Robinson fought a LHW Joey Maxim and outclassed him for 13-rounds before he collapsed (due to heat stroke).

Now you can either address the questions I posed earlier or you can take a hike. The choice is yours.

 

Not really. I have an issue with hypocrisy so I called you out on it (not the first time).

Why not?

You haven't done a whole lot of evaluation on this forum Mickey. You are free to attempt it if you would like.

 

I've got another question for you Mickeyvey: how many champions defended their titles against an opponent on a five-fight losing streak?
How do you think Robinson would've fared against the mighty Roy Dale?

 

Wel,I'll tell you Melody,Dale was fitted in between Briscoe no6 and Griffith no1 and it was a non title fight.
How does that grab your smug ass?

 

Oh well I guess that makes it better. It's okay for a long-reigning champion to pick on a journeyman on a 5-fight losing streak as long as he doesn't put the title up for grabs! Silly me.

 

Monzon defended against Briscoe no6 in NOV 72fought an over the weight non title with Dale then fought Griffith no 1, 6 months after defending against Briscoe.
Yes it IS okay for a champion to fight a non title gimmee as long as he is defending against his top ten ranked challengers as Monzon did.So again yes.SILLY YOU!
You complained you got no examples of Argentinian fighters who did not win by a clear margin getting draws?
Alberto Massi 7 draws
Esteban Osuna17 draws
Ruben Martinezl 5 draws
Abel Cachazo 13 draws
Alberto Almigon 18draws
Octavio Escarauza 9 draws.
It strikes me ,that,if you were half as smart as you think you are, you would know this was common practice in Argentina!

NB After winning the title from Lamotta, Robinson had 8 over the weight bouts before risking his title and losing it to Turpin.

 

Ray Robinson had 6 draws (only 3 less) does that mean that handing out 'unwarranted' draws was common practice in America?

Your little friend said that this was common practice in South America. I asked for NOTABLE South American fighters that drew with such frequency.

All the guys you've listed are bums. Pay attention to the specifics of my question.

I'm pretty baffled as to how that exonerates him. Seems like a pretty flimsy justification considering the fact that you have no way of verifying that he actually won those fights - you are making the assumption that he won without evidence.

In order for the fight to be scored a draw it would have had to have been competitive. How do you justify Monzon having competitive fights against very low-level competition? Thats pretty unbecoming of a fighter of his (supposed) caliber no?

Like I said I am more concerned about who some of the draws are against: tomato cans.

 

sure you did, you used Monzons early career draws to bring him down and now you say how does these draws make his record better. ? I never said they did fool. This is a strawman rookie ****. You didnt know the South American rules brought more draws to fighters in general as a whole, so you are back peddling. Eating crow as I showed you examples and you want more ?? Do your homework boy. You cant even comprehend that these early Draws had zero impact on his career, so why bring them up,? because its low ammo and WEAK coming from a hater. Your act is old. .I say Monzon has the better jab and controls the distance and you say no SRR has the better jab and is better at everything. You are the only clown here who says that he gets schooled all 15 rounds ,, . I say Monzon has the better jab and you say SRR does and he is better at everything, what a joke you are ... I'm going to pour a drink and continue to watch mcvey rip you a new arse hole with no grease

 

Again I'm still waiting to hear how I 'backed away'.

If you don't think the draws are positive then what exactly are you arguing for?

I didn't say that I knew what the 'rule' was or that there was even a 'rule'. I'm just confused as to how that excuses Monzon's sub-par performances against weak opposition. There are a lot of fighters in boxing history that accrued many draws, I'm not entirely sure that that is exclusive to South America.

I bring them up because some of them were against very weak opposition.

If you disagree that Robinson is better then construct an argument as to why you think that isn't the case.

Have a good drink!

 

I never brought the draws YOU DID !!!! only in response to you not knowing the rules !! strawman ,, busted!! keep lying boy
But i see it is being explained to you for time 5th time

 

I'm not entirely sure where the 'busting' happened.
If the draws are neither positive nor excusable then why does the 'rule' matter?
Maybe you should lay off the booze.

 

Already did that. follow along

 

My friend writing 'distance control' is not an argument.

 

The Draws are a result of the rules you dumb stupid strawman **** ... do you get it now ?? IT HAS BEEN EXPLAINED TO YOU 1000 times,
these early draws in his career are only used by a select FEW , like yourself to bring Monzon down , These early draws were all before his first title fight .. which means THEY DONT MEAN JACK ****ING **** ... ok do you get it now?

 

you want me to explain to you what makes Monzon a great fighter .. hell if you dont already know that you are following the wrong sport
and you just got your arse handed to you from across the pond, btw
another Monzon hater bites the dust