Sugar Ray Robinson vs King Carlos Monzon (160lbs 15 rounds)

Hi Buddy.
Picking Turpin to beat Monzon is a bold choice my friend, bold indeed, not least because you picking against a proven ATG in the division, who generally comes in most posters top 3, who held the title for the best part of 7 years, had not been beaten for the last 12 years of his career, had a chin and will of iron, had stamina to burn, didn't cut, was down scant times in a long and illustrious career, up against Turpin who held the title for 64 days, was knocked out or stopped 5 times, one of the knockouts being inflicted by the fairly light punching Tiberio Mitri, but if that's your take on the match up, your more than welcome to it, and I respect all and everyone's opinions .
stay safe HH, chat soon buddy.

 

I have Ray. He would go forward and put pressure on Monzón, it should be problem for Monzón how he stayed in the ropes without moving his head so many times... Griffith couldn´t make something out of it, maybe Ray could.

 

Not at his peak.
There's a difference between still being great in comparison to competition and fighting at your absolute peak. Do you think any of those guys would've given him a hard time Robinson if they fought him in '48,'49,'50?

 

Hello Mr. Cannon,
I know you don't respect my opinion and you don't have to pretend to. Its ok not to. Your comment kind of gives that away.
Monzon being an ATG in his time doesn't necessarily mean he beats everybody (or even most people) in every time. I made my opinion on him and Turpin on the basis of how I see a H2H matchup playing out - Monzon is objectively the 'greater' fighter (as far as achievements go) it doesn't necessarily mean he gets the better of him in a match-up. I hope this distinction is clear.
Turpin's win against the distracted Robinson is still more impressive to me than any of Monzon's 'signature' victories, two or three of which were against washed up Welterweights. My opinions about the Monzon era and his quality (or lack thereof) of his opponents are very well documented.
Regarding the people who rank Monzon in the top 3 ATG MWs, I have about as much respect for their ranking as you do for my Turpin v Monzon prediction (which they and you of course are entitled to).

Thanks for the chat buddy!

 

Yes, I think LaMotta, Fullmer, Basilio and Turpin would give Ray trouble at any time in his career because they were rough, relentless and strong and Ray always had to work especially hard against this type of fighter.

 

Do you think Basilio and Fullmer would've beaten Robinson if they'd fought him earlier?
I don't think a prime Robinson would've fought to the death against Basilio. I definitely don't think that Fullmer would've laid a glove on him at his peak.
LaMotta I agree with and never disputed.

 

So, I have thought long and hard over the last couple of days, as to how my response should be weighted, as you know I normally start my posts with " Hi buddy " but seeing as you derided that with your exclamation mark after your own buddy, I will refrain on this solitary occasion, you claim I don't respect you, I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion, all I said was that it was bold statement to suggest that Turpin would beat Monzon, I mean lots of posters have said similar on various match ups over my years on the forum, and some a lot less polite, you concede that Monzon was a ATG " in his time " which is sort of a oxymoron of sorts, there is a clue in the letters ATG , so he wasn't just a great in his own time, but all time, agreed ? not sure how many of my posts and responses you have read, after all there are plenty more intelligent, thought provoking, and down right interesting posts than my own warblings, but if you have, I will draw your attention to the fact I have never, and I mean never, said to a fellow poster " you are wrong " or " no way does A beat B " or even remotely of that nature, theirs, yours, everyone's thoughts and opinions deserve some vestibule of credence, so you are wrong when you say I don't respect you or your opinions, palpably wrong, and I was quite taken aback that you would think as much, as I have stated on many occasions, nobody on the forum knows everything, I have followed boxing for 55 years, and I have read postings on here that still educate me, as I am sure it does to other old timers, in closing I would like to state that I do indeed respect your thoughts and opinions, I might disagree, and if I did I will tell you in a measured and polite manner, the above said, I would hope that you and I can continue to have healthy and informative dialogue, that might benefit the pair of us.
So, stay safe buddy ( meant ) and lets chat soon.

 

Hello Mr Cannon,

I apologize for jumping to conclusions about your statement, I am used to being on defense mode about my comments on here. However, I did not accuse you of not respecting me as an individual, if I did please point to where that was stated.

In terms of my use of ATG, you are correct that it is oxymoronic so I will clear that up:
Firstly my capitalizing the letters 'atg' has no significance, it is just something that I do. Secondly, I meant to say that Monzon achieved a lot during the period of his career (in terms of title defenses and unbeaten streaks) but that I wouldn't rank him with or expect him to beat any of the previous greats in that division e.g. Greb, Robinson, Walker, Ketchel, Cerdan etc. The middleweight division is probably the most significant when it comes to the sheer number of great fighters. My opinion of Monzon is that he is only an ATG on paper (which to many is an outrageous opinion) and I feel this way about many fighters - I am not afraid to have unorthodox opinions about fighters particularly those that are in the 'pantheon'. I hope my explanation makes a little more sense.

I would also like to point out that I gave Turpin the 'edge' over Monzon, meaning that I don't think there's much between them.

I apologize again for misrepresenting you and do hope we can engage in fruitful conversations on this forum regardless of whether we agree.

 

Hi Buddy.
Thanks for your prompt and sincere apologies, of which they are accepted in full, it takes a real man to say sorry, so your stock has risen in my eyes,also you are a relatively young man, but you have showed maturity beyond your years, it serves you well,and of course we shall continue to have our debates, you show a knowledge of boxing above your age, respect for that, in future post please refer to me as Mike, less formal.
stay safe HH, chat soon I hope.
Mike.