Is it enough to make any real difference though? In the exchanges Hagler would be much more sturdier would he not? Good post. Agreed. Maybe so, but he held his own over the first ten rounds then took a battering late. Over those first 10 or so rounds (which were fought pretty fast) what Middleweight do you see besting him? Watch the first 10 rounds of Lamotta vs Robinson VI Definitely. Anyway, here is some of my thoughts on it. Hagler is a master of taking away the jab, just with his slight head movement, parries and his own ram-rod straight right. He generally wins the battle of the jab. With a little slip to the side he closes in the distance and rams his own jab right down the pipe. I see this having a big effect as if we look at how Fullmer beat Robinson, it was not just a mindless caveman beating him, Fullmer had a good strategy and it was all worked around the jab being used to keep Robinson off balance. Fullmer would jab to throw Robinson off then rush in with his combinations. Hagler could easily do the same thing, work his hard right jab and throw the combinations off of it, as he did best. I think this allows him to establish a steady but fast pace to the bout and allow him to get inside and attempt to 'wear down' Robinson. However, the best ever Robinson we seen in the ring (vs Lamotta VI) was a master of the back foot counterpunching and with Hagler rushing in it makes an interesting proposition. It should also be noticed after having hell from Fullmer, he beat him in the rematch with counter-punching. However, I have not seen the third fight to see how he dealt with Fullmer over the 15 round distance. I think after a few rounds of his jab being taken away, Robinson will start using it as a lure and looking for Hagler to commit to it then launching in some hard counterpunches as Hagler advances. I think this gives Robinson the edge in the there. I also think it would start to make Hagler more cautious and allow Robinson to establish what he wanted to. (Also, I feel Robinson being a jumped up Welterweight is overplayed, it was obvious he grew into a strong and tall Middleweight.)
Very good post. I can't help but feel that a bit too much is made out of Robinson's last victory over LaMotta.
Yes ,the matured Robinson at nearly 6ft,was a middleweight by then. In that time the welterweight top weight was 147 pounds.After that weight you were a middleweight.There were 8 recognized divisions. So Robinson was by thge last LaMotta fight a middleweight, and yes Jake was weight drained and rumors were rampant ,of the trouble LaMotta was having ,shedding 10 pounds for the bout...
But still, which was the best opponent Robinson beat when he was a matured MW? Turpin? Whose physical approach clearly troubled him. Fulmer dito. LaMotta was the biggest name, but he was having a hard time with everyone he fought at that time. People make a big deal out of Hagler being past prime in '87, but that applies even more to this version of LaMotta. The only reason why the name Dauthuille rings a bell is because he came within 13 seconds of taking LaMotta's title in the previous defense.
Robert Villemain had beaten him in a non-title fight a little over a year before. Dauthille came within a whisker of winning the title in the previous fight. These are hardly legendary fighters.
Dauthille was for the title. EDIT: And actually, it could well be that he'd be in better shape for a non-title fight at this time since he had such huge problems making weight.
Robinson cruised in the early rounds and was always planning to cut loose late. Compare those early rounds to those of the Graziano fight.
I understand you. I just think that Lamotta on the film looks pretty good in the fight. You cannot doubt that. Maybe he was 'cruising', and by 'cruising' I mean boxing his man and as you say 'planning to cut loose late', but that by no means means that he was throwing away the early rounds and not trying. In the early rounds Robinson is in a boxing mode and Lamotta gives him a lot of problems, it is only once Robinson starts to become more flat footed does Lamotta begin to wilt.
Yeah, Robinson said himself that he planned his tactic on the fact that LaMotta would be weight drained and gassing in the later rounds. Doesn't change the fact that LaMotta was badly weight drained and gassed in the later rounds.
Bokaj I would be interested in hearing your opinion on how important Hagler's jab would be in this bout.
He looks very good until he gasses due to weight drain. But up to this point the fight is also quite evenly balanced.
Good question. Robinson's jab was good at MW, but not as deadly as it was at WW. Hagler had one of the very best jabs in boxing history. Even though Robinson enjoyed the longer reach Hagler's jab would without a doubt play a part. But still, he didn't really impose it to such a degree on the two most skillful fighters he met: Duran and Leonard. Robinson had longer reach and better movement than both of them. So to conclude: it would aboslutely play a part, but concerns can rightfullly be raised whether it would be a game changer.
Fair assessment. I just see Hagler winning the battle of the jabs, here. However, as you say he did not impose it on Duran or Leonard so that may mean it is not as effective as i think it is.
