"Sugar" Ray Robinson vs Roberto Duran

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Steelhammer123, Feb 10, 2009.


Page 2 of 3
  1. Steelhammer123

    Steelhammer123 New Member Full Member

    48
    0
    Jun 22, 2008
    Robinson started his career at 135. He wasn´t weight drained back then.
     
    Steelhammer123, Feb 10, 2009
    Steelhammer123, Feb 10, 2009
    #16
  2. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

    61,460
    38
    Jan 7, 2005
    I didn't know there was any 147 footage of Robinsin either?
     
    GazOC, Feb 10, 2009
    GazOC, Feb 10, 2009
    #17
  3. Godfather

    Godfather I put the G in God Full Member

    407
    2
    Jun 10, 2008
    Duran wins by mid-late stoppage
     
    Godfather, Feb 10, 2009
    Godfather, Feb 10, 2009
    #18
  4. PATSYS

    PATSYS Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,481
    18
    Aug 12, 2004
    If you are talking of the 160 lbr Robinson, then yes he would be weight drained. But the 135 lbr Robinson would make it.
     
    PATSYS, Feb 10, 2009
    PATSYS, Feb 10, 2009
    #19
  5. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    27,199
    93
    Dec 26, 2007
    The same version of Robinson that beat guys like Fritzie Zivic, Sammy Angott, Maxie Shapiro, Marty Servo, Jimmy Tygh, Pete Lello, Joe Ghnouly, etc.? I don't think so. I'd say he was quite a bit more refined than you give him credit for given his size, power, speed, and amateur experience prior to turning pro. I'd favor that Robinson over someone like Dejesus I know.
     
    Sweet Pea, Feb 10, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Feb 10, 2009
    #20
  6. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

    37,427
    89
    Jul 19, 2004
    Ray already looked to be in great form when he won the Golden Gloves as an amateur in 1939. I don't understand why everyone is acting like a 20 year old Robinson was too green for a early 20's Duran. Hell, Robinson won the featherweight Golden Gloves in 1939, and by 1942 he was beating Zivic and LaMotta.
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Feb 10, 2009
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Feb 10, 2009
    #21
  7. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

    34,796
    65
    Dec 1, 2008
    Robinson easy. Duran did not have Robinson at lightweight in the 1970s, he had Dejesus and Buchanan. That is why he was the terror he was at that weight. Robinson would have neutralized him like Leonard and Hearns and Benitez did a few years later.
     
    MAG1965, Feb 10, 2009
    MAG1965, Feb 10, 2009
    #22
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,009
    48,104
    Mar 21, 2007
    Robinson was over 135 for Zivic and Agnott and never under it again after he fought them.
     
    McGrain, Feb 10, 2009
    McGrain, Feb 10, 2009
    #23
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,009
    48,104
    Mar 21, 2007
    Again, victories over Zivic and LaMotta have nothing to do with his brief lightweight career.
     
    McGrain, Feb 10, 2009
    McGrain, Feb 10, 2009
    #24
  10. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

    37,427
    89
    Jul 19, 2004
    Robinson was at 135 one month before he fought Zivic. Do you think that he changed that much from September to October? :lol:
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Feb 10, 2009
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Feb 10, 2009
    #25
  11. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

    37,427
    89
    Jul 19, 2004
    Clearly you guys didn't see him at the Golden Gloves in 1939. He was still an amateur, fighting at featherweight and fought in the same manner that he did as a pro.
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Feb 10, 2009
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Feb 10, 2009
    #26
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,009
    48,104
    Mar 21, 2007
    I think you're referring to the Shapiro fight? Where Robinson is listed as being just over the lightweight limit?

    Anyway or no, it's not the progression over time that matters, rather Robinson's possible tightness at a given weight. Robinson came in over against Shapiro in a lightweight match because that was more comfortable for him. He was growing into his best weight which was welterweight. Or to put it more simply, he didn't beat Zivic or LaMotta at 135.
     
    McGrain, Feb 10, 2009
    McGrain, Feb 10, 2009
    #27
  13. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

    37,427
    89
    Jul 19, 2004
    He weighed 135 1/4 lbs.... :lol: C'mon man, you are reaching. We are talking ONE MONTH. You can **** off a 1/4 pound, honestly... I have done it.

    As I said before... in 1939 as an amateur, Robinson had already proved to be in great form. That was even at featherweight.
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Feb 10, 2009
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Feb 10, 2009
    #28
  14. stevebhoy87

    stevebhoy87 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,304
    5
    Dec 7, 2007
    The 1st agnott fight he weighed just under 137 and that was only because agnott didnt want to defend the title against robinson so asked foran above weight fight.

    I think duran would win but robinson stil accomplished enough by that point in his career to beat a fighter arguably top 10 all time at 135 and he would give duran a lot to think about
     
    stevebhoy87, Feb 10, 2009
    stevebhoy87, Feb 10, 2009
    #29
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,009
    48,104
    Mar 21, 2007
    Sure, and a he's been a pound over and the quarers and a half...the two things I would say is

    1 - If you're going to do one of these ****ing things :lol: at the ludicrousness of it all, have your facts right. Robinson wasn't at the LW limit one month before he fought Zivic. Sorry. That's not reching. It's just a fact.

    2 - You mentioned the LaMotta win. That's got even less relevance to the lightweight Robinson.

    But it's nothing to argue about, really. I've taken the thread question literally, you've bent it a little bit, our answers are bound to be a little different.


    I have no idea what the bearing of Robinson's performance at an amatuer featherweight tournie has on his chances of beating peak Duran at proffesional and lightweight. Nothing, I would suggest.
     
    McGrain, Feb 10, 2009
    McGrain, Feb 10, 2009
    #30
Page 2 of 3