Sugar Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran

You get no respect here Sonny,you got owned in the Johnson /Marciano thread and slunk off with your tail between your legs.One major factor in Duran's defeat in the second fight is that it took place only 5 months after the first,givng Duran ,as Mike Trainer Leonard's adviser said "enough time to eat his way out of condition ,but not enougth to get back in".You seem ignorant of this ,but then you seem ignorant on most things pertaining to boxing,you come across as a cocky kid who is repeating half truths he has heard from other people,I see a lot of chastisement in store for you on this site Junior.

 

Robinson would win a clear UD vs Duran - the size, reach & 2 handed power would be the key.

SRR hit harder than SRL & I had that 1 close tho Duran did win.

 

I don't think the reach would play as a big advantage at all, if any.

 

Really ?

I see this as a vital advantage in this fight.
Robinson will definitely know that Durans best chance of victory is to get inside using that great in close slipping type defence that he has while working to both body & head - mainly body - from close range.

The best way to prevent a man - especially a shorter man - from getting inside is to use your foot-movement & straight punches like the jab etc.
We all know that SRR didnt mind getting in there & infighting with the best of them & I dont doubt he would do this in this fight but surely you dont think he would give up his reach advantage totally by infighting all night long, no way.... SRR would spend more time on the outside than the inside in this fight, way more IMO.

I think Roberto would have major problems with SRRs jab & movement, I see Robinson being very dominant from the outside, in fact I feel that this is exactly were he wins this fight, Ray catching Duran coming in will happen more than once in this fight, a lot more than once.

Duran will do his best work inside & Ray will be happy, maybe too happy on occassion to play that game but dont kid yourself that Ray Robinsons reach & outside boxing skills wont win this fight for him by clear UD.
I even see Duran looking wary about coming inside once SRR has worked his body & head so frequently from both the inside & outside - mainly outside.
By rd 12, Roberto will have slowed down considerably & Robinson will be landing more regularly maybe even having Duran covering up surviving on his great defence for spells, slipping , avoiding the flush shots but still unable to land anything meaningfull himself. Id bet on Duran to survive but he might take a flash KD late on, I cant see Robinson losing this fight on each mans best nights, Im not overrating SRR or underrating Duran but Ray takes this one for me, no doubt.

Great fight but Robinson wins by clear UD for me.

Robinson W15 Duran (10-5)

:thumbsup

 

I didn't get ''owned'' at all, i just simply leave threads when knuckle heads ignore every single thing that i say. Would you mind name those biographies that you have? Because i have Unforgivable blackness(on both book and DVD) and they state the amount of rounds that Johnson went. Your knowledge is going to boxrec( an unreliable website when it comes to facts about history) and you come in thinking that you know about Johnson, when its pretty clear that you don't. Do you seriously believe that boxrec has EVERY single fight of Johnson and the actual account of it? please. Anyone can go there and the most knowledgeable fans on the websites that i have been to tells me that it was not credible. The article that i posted was from USA history, and they actually check their facts before posting anything.

Also, Duran was still in his prime years, so him ''eating'' his way out of shape is on his part, and i personally don't buy into that. I seen the guy beat Leonard( maybe the greatest fighter of the era) a few months earlier and now hes all of a sudden past his prime when he loses the rematch? Give it a break. Fans will say anything to make their fighter not look bad. The difference was that Leonard stuck to his game plan and tactically, found a brilliant fight. In the first fight, he simply let Duran get into his head, which carried on into the fight however it was a great win and a great performance by Duran, but i seen the EXACT same Duran in the rematch, and it wasn't what he didn't do, but rather what Leonard did and that is box the correct way.

 

It's not a question of his gameplan, I just don't think a fighter with punches as compact as Robinson really took advantage of his reach, because he didn't need to for the most part. Not a chance in hell he keeps Duran off by attempting to box using lateral movement behind the jab. If he's deterring Duran, it's with his power, which would definitely get the job done at times, though it would also leave him open to letting Duran in to put in his own work. I'd favor Robinson as well probably, I just don't think reach plays a part in it, as that wouldn't have been a very successful stretegy with Duran.

 

Duran's only chance in this top fantasy matchup is to get under Robinson's skin in the run-up, make him lose composure, deploy unrelenting macho pressure and turn the bout into a mano-a-mano shootout he can possibly win, á la Montreal.

If Robinson keeps a cool head, he has too many tools and clearly wins a hard-fought decision.

No shame for Duran, best at lightweight, taking the greatest-ever welter to the searing end of the line.

 

I repeat my question ,SHOW PROOF ON HERE THAT JOHNSON OR JEFFRIES EVER WENT 40 ROUNDS IN A FIGHT.You have two posters waiting for your reply. I did NOT say Duran was not in his prime,I said he ate himself out of shape ,this is common knowledge.NOW LETS HAVE THAT PROOF! Or are you going to slink away off this thread too?PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

 

I don't want to take side in any feud here, but I'm never very fond of claims of poor shape when someone performes under expectation. To me, Duran didn't seem to be out of shape in the rematch, he just looked clueless.

I don't have any particular insights into Duran's or Leonard's preparations, but neither of them looked to be in poor shape in either fight to me.

 

No, the difference was that Duran was out of shape, unmotivated and basically, had the shits. Not a recipe for success when dealing with a fighter who relied on his passion for success like Duran, especially when you factor in the way Leonard fought that night. He had balooned up to 200+ pounds in between the first and second fight. Leonard's strategy was to have the rematch as soon as possible, as he knew Duran's bad habits between fights and wanted to take full advantage of it. And if you honestly saw the Duran of the rematch to be the same as the Duran of the first fight, you're only proving what we already know, that you're a complete twat.

 

Duran had balooned up to over 200 pounds in between the two fights, in a span of a few months. Gaining and draining that kind of weight in that short a period is terrible for your health, especially when trying to get into fighting shape.

Duran was just not the same fighter in the rematch, due to quite a few factors. Regardless of whether or not you like to make excuses, that doesn't change the fact that they do hold merit. Nobody's fault but Duran, but it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't at his best by any stretch.

 

Hindsight; Duran was clearly not the same fighter after he beat Leonard in their first fight. And to say that he never looked sluggish and slower during the rematch is total nonsense. Even during those moments when he was competitive he wasn't authoritive and convincing with his work. A large percentage of credit goes to Leonard for adjusting, but Duran never looked like the same fighter he did five months earlier. His timing wasn't there and his whole demeanour lacked fire. It was what Duran "didn't do" as well as what Leonard did do.

After Duran quit in New Orleans he became inconsistent and physically wasn't the same after moving up in weight. So yes, all of a sudden he was past his prime when he lost the rematch. He went onto to have some great moments in the ring when he beat Moore and took Hagler the distance, then beating Barkley at the age of 37. The best of his prime was left in the ring in Montreal.

 

Of course its the power of Robinsons punches that will take their toll on Duran & of course Robinson would never get away with only using lateral movement & the jab but I believe he does have to do this in order to get Roberto in the proper positions to unleash his power shots as Duran is super crafty & rarely takes damaging blows repeatedly.

I think the swift feet & long jab will certainly distract Duran & open him up for the hard shots that will take their toll later on, its better for Ray if he gives Duran the impression that he intends to stick & move all night as Duran will then open up a bit more to get inside as Duran doesnt really like that kind of fight (he can do it but its not his favoured style) then when Duran gets offensive minded, Robinson can land those thunder punches to the liver & head.

I would actually go as far as to say that SRR would be foolish if he didnt use his feet, jab & just basic outside game whenever possible as thats clearly the distance where Roberto will be least effective.

:thumbsup

 

I think butcher nailed it with that post. Most of the times Robinson's jab and lateral movement wasnt really used to keep the fight on the outside but rather to set him up for hard powerful combos at mid-range which is exactly what Robinson would do against Duran. This however does give Duran opportunities to get inside. But if Duran came in charging like he did against Leonard he would probably be punished for it a lot worse than he was in Montreale.

 

I agree. I only pointed out that I don't think the reach advantage would play much of a factor.