Sugar Ray Robinson would have cut Greb to pieces

Yes, it takes a special kind of "cojones" to carry on boxing for 5 years, and almost 100 fights, after losing the sight of one eye. You can't help but admire bravery like that.

Another kind of bravery is a one-eyed man driving a cap for 30 years to provide for his family! Hard times indeed - and hard not to admire something like that as well.

So half a century later Frazier comes along and fights with only one good eye for part of his career... and this somehow lessens the bravery of Greb and your dad??? Why that is, I don't understand - which is what my post was about. Not an attempt to put you or Greb down!

 

detente...

 

I didnt quote averages. I quoted exactly what they made amd i was actually using a generous exchange rate to be conservative. Tell me what Billy Murray made there in his fights and ill tell you if it was more or less than he made here.
If you cant then you are just talking out of your ass without the facts to back you up. So far im the only one quoting cold hard figures and so far those figures refute what you say. I can give you a prime example. In 1915 McGoorty made $5400 to face Gibbons at a smaller venue than the old tin shed. Guess how much he made to fight Darcy four months later in OZ? $4000. Darcy made the same. Now, if you can somehow bend your mind around the idea that fighters were making more in OZ be my guest but its pure fantasy. Like i said before, Darcy never saw the day in OZ he was making $1,000 a week to play around on stage with his sparring partners an never came close to a $25,000 single fight contract in Oz. Not by a long shot.

 

Fighting Billy Murray was damaged goods and really had few other options by the time he went to Australia. After doing quite well during the first six months of 1914, he had sustained a number of setbacks during a ten-month period, including two knockout losses to George Chip in Daly City, California and newspaper decision losses to Eddie McGoorty, Tommy Gibbons, Jack Dillon and George Brown in Wisconsin. His only successes during the ten-month period were two stoppage wins over Sailor Ed Petroskey and Tom Nickola in California in the latter part of 1914.

In late 1914, professional boxing was severely curtailed in California after a majority of California voters cast their ballots in the November election in favor of the proposition containing the "Four-Round Law," which would be in effect in the state until the beginning of 1925. It took some time before California boxing promoters and matchmakers were able to work around the law and use known professional fighters on their shows. That may be one reason why Murray was fighting in Wisconsin during the early part of 1915, although with a decided lack of success. Afterwards, Murray's manager, Jack Kearns, took a boxing stable of Murray himself, Red Watson, Joe Bonds and Billy Kramer to Australia.

I remember reading that Murray received a purse of $5,000. for a bout in Daly City during 1914. But after the two knockout losses to George Chip, Murray received a far smaller purse for a bout with Petroskey or Nickola. I believe that Murray also received far less than $5,000. for each of his bouts in Wisconsin during the early part of 1915.

- Chuck Johnston

 

As ive already said im using the american dollar equivalent to the pounds exchange rate at the time. Everyone else seems to understand this principle but you. If you think im wrong in how much they made then do your own math. Nobody said 25,000 pounds. I said $25,000 because thats how much Darcy was offered in the USA. Far more than he was ever offered or made in OZ. In order to make the equivalent of $25,000USD in Australia at that time Darcy would have had to make nearly 7,000 pounds for a single fight. Never happened. YOU said Darcy made more for fights in 1915 than he did in 1916. In 1915 the highest purse he made in his entire career to that point was paid to him the final month of 1915 and was roughly the equivalent of $4000 American at the time. Ive also illustrated how the war didnt effect Darcy's gates at all (they were the same size in his final fight as the largest gates he ever fought before) but you ignore this like you ignore all other facts that prove you wrong. You always have lived in a fantasy land. Just like pretending a ND fight is worthless in favor of the fights being held in OZ were Darcy's own promotional team was refereeing him. Tell me this would you rather have no judges or judges who literally own and have a financial interest in one of the fighters? Im going with option A.

 

I guess you dont remember saying this:

So yes, you did say the gates dwindled and the money dried up. It didnt. The gates were as big in Darcy's last fight as they ever had been and he was signed to fight Chip in a rematch that would have done equally as well but bailed on his contract and fled the country. The money hadnt dried up either and as Ive illustrated at his best Darcy made only a fraction for his biggest fights of what he could expect in the USA and his opponents faired no better either beyond extending their careers due to the fact that they were big fish in a small pond where they had been little fish in America's small pond and saw their opportunities dwindling. So you can pretend the money was better in OZ but given the facts Darcy was selling just as many tickets and making just as much money as he ever had. This begs the question then, if you want to stand by your assertion that there was more money for boxers in OZ then why did Darcy flee? Because its one of two reasons and neither are something you want to hear or admit to. Either he 1. Fled the country, motivated enough to break contracts and numerous laws and become a pariah by the larger purses in America or 2. He was fleeing what he thought was his imminent conscription into the war effort.

 

After boxing in the United Kingdom during his first two-plus years as a pro starting in 1913, Llew Edwards, a Welsh-born lightweight, fought in Australia with quite a bit of success during a period of time which spanned from late 1915 to early 1922. Edwards also had four bouts, winning all of them, in Manila during 1919; four bouts in the United States with mixed success during 1920; and a single bout, winning it when stopping his opponent, in England during 1920.

Edwards' boxing career was amply covered in a series of autobiographical articles which appeared in at least one Australian publication. Of special interest were Edwards' impressions of fighting in the United States during 1920. Edwards was astounded by how large the purses and gates for American bouts were, citing the gate of about $135,000. of the world heavyweight championship bout between Jack Dempsey and Billy Miske as an example. Keep in mind that Edwards was in the United States before the world heavyweight championship bout between Dempsey and Georges Carpentier took place and generated first million-dollar gate in boxing history. Edwards seemed awestruck that he had a chance to receive a purse of $5,000. for a bout in the United States.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Yeah, it was pretty obvious what you were getting at and nice way of dodging the question anyway. If you are saying that Darcy came to the USA to make money because gates dwindled in OZ(they didnt) then you are saying he came here to make more money because the dwindling gates had hurt his ability to make money there. Either way your wrong. The gates didnt dwindle for him, he wasnt making less money there than before, he simply knew what I know and what you dont want to admit that the USA paid much better than Australia. That was the point, that was what you arguing against, you were wrong. Its just humorous to me that you cant admit it and now want to pretend we are arguing semantics.

 

I have a biography, The Snowy Baker Story, by Greg Growden. While re-reading the pages of the book devoted to Les Darcy, I got the impression that he was a very unsure young man caught in a huge tug-of-war involving a number of people, including Baker, Jack Kearns, his beloved mother, and even his boss at the blacksmith shop where he was a blacksmith apprentice. Don't underestimate the influence of Darcy's mother or his boss at the blacksmith shop.

The boss at the blacksmith shop seemed to hold Darcy to the apprentice agreement even after Darcy became a boxing star for Baker. As a result, Baker apparently had to pay enough money to the boss so that the latter could employ a substitute in place of Darcy. Baker also seemed to spend quite a bit of time talking to Darcy's mother. Kearns, as a manager of a stable of American boxers in Australia at the time, was one of several people who wanted to get their mitts on Darcy. After knocking out George Chip in the ninth round on September 30, 1916, Darcy never had another bout despite not turning 21 until the 31st of October during the same year.

I found some interesting information about one of Darcy's opponents, Harold Hardwick, on the internet. Hardwick was a fine all-round athlete who won three medals as a Australian swimmer in the 1912 Summer Olympics, a gold medal in a relay race and two bronze medals in individual races. He went on to serve during both World Wars and rose to the rank of Colonel during World War II.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Nice post, Chuck. Some guys really tried to screw a boxer for every penny back then. People suck.