Sugar Ray Robinson

The TS asked specifically for any flaws. What is untrue?

At the end of the day, he is for me:

* #1 ATG P4P
* #1 ATG WW
* #1 H2H WW
* #1 ATG MW
* Top 3 H2H MW
* Top 5 ATG Puncher
* Top 10 ATG Chin

Also consider him to have the greatest combination of power/speed/chin ever which means he can beat absolutely any fighter that ever boxed between 147-160. He's also arguably the greatest combination puncher ever with arguably the greatest left hook ever.

He has the resume depth that modern fighters can't approach and the skills/ability that far surpass the old-time greats who can.

I basically worship him.

 

Don't forget to include -- putting aside his million-dollar grill 'n charm -- Sugar was street vicious, AD

 

:yep

The day I actually decided to look into Robinson for myself is the day he instantly jumped into my favorite fighters ever. The usual schtick with Ray is the whole Sugar moniker and how he boxed so angelic and gracefully. Yeah, sure. He was also every bit as ferocious and visceral as Tyson or Duran could ever be. He punches with a **** ton and a half of unchecked Rage. It literally looks like he is trying to Kill his opponents at times. Like unloading a banana clip at point blank range.

 

KILLER word-picture, HoI. Sums up Sugar perfectly

 

Great insights. Classic thread.

 

Yeah, turned out alright.

 

Here's the list of fighters Robinson fought who were rated by RING Magazine at one point or another. In Bold are those rated at the time he fought them, Italics on IBHOF/WBHOFs:

Boxer Weight 1st-Rated Last-Rated Months-Rated Best-Rating
Abrams, Georgie 160 1938/08 1947/10 055 01*
Angott, Sammy 135-147 1938/07 1946/04 081 00
Archer, Joey 160 1963/03 1967/05 051 01*
Armstrong, Henry 126-147 1935/01 1945/06 123 00
Barnes, Ray 160 1950/08 1953/02 018 04*
Basilio, Carmen 147-160 1953/06 1962/02 087 00
Basora, Jose 160 1942/09 1949/08 048 02*
Bell, O'Neill 160 1948/01 1948/05 002 07*
Bell, Tommy 147 1944/01 1949/02 051 01*
Belloise, Steve 147-160 1940/06 1950/06 096 01*
Berger, Maxie 135-147 1938/05 1944/02 033 05*
Burns, Charley 135 1935/07 1935/11 005 05*
Castellani, Rocky 160 1949/02 1957/02 059 01*
Castiglione, Nick 135 1941/11 1943/02 005 08*
Costner, George 147 1945/11 1951/02 032 01*
Curcio, Joe 147 1946/09 1946/09 001 10*
Delannoit, Cyrille 160 1948/08 1949/06 011 02*
Dellicurti, Vic 147-160 1939/12 1945/09 022 06*
Docusen, Bernard 135-147 1945/07 1950/10 050 01*
Downes, Terry 160-175 1960/09 1966/03 052 00
Doyle, Jimmy 147 1945/06 1947/08 019 02*
Dupas, Ralph 135-147 1953/09 1965/03 136 01*
Dykes, Bobby 147-160 1949/10 1956/02 033 01*
Fullmer, Gene 160 1955/08 1964/07 107 00
Fusari, Charley 147 1946/11 1952/03 049 02*
Gavilan, Kid 147-160 1948/01 1958/09 106 00
Ghnouly, Joe 130-135 1931/11 1936/04 031 05*
Giardello, Joey 160-175 1952/10 1968/03 152 00
Graziano, Rocky 147-160 1944/09 1952/10 083 00
Guggino, Carl "Red" 135 1937/02 1938/03 006 06*
Harrington, Stan 147-160 1963/09 1967/06 035 02*
Harris, Ossie 160 1945/09 1945/10 002 10*
Hecht, Gerhard 175 1953/03 1958/03 061 01*
Hernandez, Art 160 1965/11 1966/03 002 10*
Hernandez, Ferd 160 1966/12 1968/10 023 02*
Hudson, Cecil 147-160 1943/02 1947/12 006 02*
Jannazzo, Izzy 147-160 1935/03 1944/08 066 01*
Jones, Ralph Tiger 160 1953/02 1960/08 047 03*
LaMotta, Jake 160-175 1942/07 1953/02 121 00
Leahy, Mick 160 1965/01 1965/03 003 10*
Lee, Don 160 1984/04 1986/12 032 04*
Lello, Pete 135 1939/02 1941/04 016 03*
Levine, Artie 160-175 1946/05 1949/04 012 06*
Martin, Georgie 147 1941/01 1944/02 006 10*
Maxim, Joey* 175-200+ 1941/02 1956/09 148* 00
McDaniels, Jimmy 147 1943/06 1945/08 019 03*
Mims, Holley 160 1952/02 1960/06 057 02*
Motisi, Tony 147 1942/05 194304 009 06*
Moyer, Denny 147-160 1959/04 1972/06 099 01*
Nettlow, Al 135-147 1939/04 1943/02 006 08*
Olson, Carl Bobo 160-175 1949/08 1967/05 139 00
Pender, Paul 160 1959/06 1964/02 050 00
Quarles, Norment 135 1937/01 1939/02 012 08*
Rangel, Sheik 147 1943/02 1944/02 009 05*
Rindone, Joe 160-175 1951/06 1954/02 004 07*
Rubio, Norman 147 1941/09 1944/02 010 09*
Secreet, Sammy 147 1942/01 1946/08 006 06*
Servo, Marty 147 1942/02 1947/02 022 00
Shapiro, Maxie 126-135 1940/07 1945/02 018 03*
Stretz, Hans 160-175 1954/02 1958/02 019 02*
Taylor, Chuck 147 1946/06 1946/11 004 07*
Turner, Earl 147 1942/11 1948/09 011 04*
Turpin, Randy 160-175 1950/03 1958/02 065 00
Tygh, Jimmy 135 1939/02 1940/09 002 09*
Villemain, Robert 147-175 1947/09 1953/02 046 02*
Wade, Aaron Tiger 160 1945/12 1946/02 003 07*
Wallace, Frankie 126-135 1932/01 1938/02 020 02*
Wilson, Jackie (L.A.) 135-147 1940/01 1947/04 032 02*
Zannelli, Ralph 147-160 1938/02 1953/02 018 03*
Zengaras, George 135 1937/09 1939/11 007 08*
Zivic, Fritzie 147 1936/08 1945/08 095 00


- Henry Hascup got the goods.

So yeah, every Hall of Famer he beat was a rated fighter in the division (a minmum of at least once as he smoked some of them several times), usually in the Top 3 except Graziano, Eject: Mouthpiece.

 

^^ Even if Robinson wasn't all that, he'd have to be Top 5 just based on the work he put in during his era alone. You will not find many similar examples. Maybe Armstrong... Greb.. Plus there were half as many divisions in which to compete. :conf

 

All-time great Chin. All-time great power. All-time great speed. All-time great competition. All time great resume.

His only weakness was he took unnecessary shots. But a lot of the time that didn't matter.....oh- and avoided Burley :yep

 

He was never really inclined to fight Burley based on the where and when of their divisional ratings. Except that time there was a contract on the table in 1946. (? McGrain ?) :verysad

 

Robinson was "too pretty" to tangle with Chocolate Charley :verysad

 

Shame there's such limited footage of Burley. Even more so that he remains almost a virtual unknown to many.

 

Excellent thread, lots of good discussion. Ray had unreal physical tools, but as noted he wasn't perfect. I don't think I would favor anyone over him at 147 though I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Leonard could beat him with his own tremendous tools and especially his discipline and ability to follow a game plan. Given the tremendous heart of both Sugar Rays that has to be seen as one of the most exciting fantasy match ups ever.

 

:deal

I've got them #1-2 in terms of both ATG/H2H at 147.

 

Not fighting black fighters like Burley, Holman, Cocoa, Lytell